Really disappointed by finishing a galaxy

[Nerex7]

The one point for one of the star signs you get does almost nothing and it resets the whole flame? Up until this point, I would have called this game one of the best idle games I have ever played, and I played a lot, but this is just ridiculous.

[phenir]

It's a decent bonus for making your next run a little smoother and faster. Hopefully you chose poison soul or +10 damage.

[Nerex7]

Originally posted by phenir:

It's a decent bonus for making your next run a little smoother and faster. Hopefully you chose poison soul or +10 damage.

Both of those sound useless, to be honest. 10 damage to all swords? I will break thousands of damage in a few minutes of my very first run, let alone once the candles get going.

It's just an unnecessary forced hard reset the game REALLY did not need.

[phenir]

Originally posted by Nerex7:

Originally posted by phenir:

It's a decent bonus for making your next run a little smoother and faster. Hopefully you chose poison soul or +10 damage.

Both of those sound useless, to be honest. 10 damage to all swords? I will break thousands of damage in a few minutes of my very first run, let alone once the candles get going.

It's just an unnecessary forced hard reset the game REALLY did not need.

It's +10 to the base damage, which means it increases how fast the damage on a weapon scales up from levels. This is particularly noteworthy on the starting weapon which only has 5 base damage, making it a 200% increase in damage.
Poison soul is an extra damage multiplier that can trivialize boss fights for you. With wind mask you can easily stack poison to 1000%+ before the boss timer ends. Without it, easily get 100 or more, still good.

[Nerex7]

Originally posted by phenir:

Originally posted by Nerex7:

Both of those sound useless, to be honest. 10 damage to all swords? I will break thousands of damage in a few minutes of my very first run, let alone once the candles get going.

It's just an unnecessary forced hard reset the game REALLY did not need.

It's +10 to the base damage, which means it increases how fast the damage on a weapon scales up from levels. This is particularly noteworthy on the starting weapon which only has 5 base damage, making it a 200% increase in damage.
Poison soul is an extra damage multiplier that can trivialize boss fights for you. With wind mask you can easily stack poison to 1000%+ before the boss timer ends. Without it, easily get 100 or more, still good.

The 10 base damage are nothing if you already prepared and early game weapon through charms and all. I pushed one to a cost of only 1 for the first few upgrades. I can get it to almost 100 in no time, with no wax or candle on it. So that base damage is useless to me.

The poison might be something, but I had no trouble with any of the bosses so far, never used poison either.

My go to is to get the Wind mask going while Rage of Darkness or what it's called is active + the % damage from active clicks (which is what the rage of darkness does) and a ton of crit dmg from the later skill.

Since Crit Rings do stack multiplicatively with that skill AND the Improve Crit which you can spam because of Wind Mask, you have no damage issues at all.

The skills just should be game changing if they hard reset your whole game, basically. It just feels awful starting all over again while gaining next to nothing.

[Alketal]

"Poison" soul action is a boss-killer. Or maybe even THE boss-killer. It can do insane damage. Resisting Blood Shard can be newbie's Nemesis because EVERY champion has potential to become mini-boss trought percent-based health regeneration. IMO, the best way to spend your first constellation bonus.

"Improve Damage" and "Improve Crit" are soul actions that require A LOT of time to get enough damage to be somewhere close to Poison soul in terms of progression - especially at 2nd and 3rd galaxies. If you have enough time - well, why not? But If you want to speed up your progression - Poison soul can help you. Sometimes making some fast runs is more profitable than 1 long run.

[Alketal]

Whole constellation system has unexpected depth. But you need some more progression to get advanced effects.

[Nerex7]

Originally posted by Alketal:

"Poison" soul action is a boss-killer. Or maybe even THE boss-killer. It can do insane damage. Resisting Blood Shard can be newbie's Nemesis because EVERY champion has potential to become mini-boss trought percent-based health regeneration. IMO, the best way to spend your first constellation bonus.

"Improve Damage" and "Improve Crit" are soul actions that require A LOT of time to get enough damage to be somewhere close to Poison soul in terms of progression - especially at 2nd and 3rd galaxies. If you have enough time - well, why not? But If you want to speed up your progression - Poison soul can help you. Sometimes making some fast runs is more profitable than 1 long run.

I'm just human though, I will have to sleep at some point which is usually when I set up the souls if I want to exit the shard.

ALso, spending more time in a shard was never a problem as every reset will grow the flame, which is why this whole hard reset is especially frustrating. It should not reset the flame.

[Alketal]

Originally posted by Nerex7:

I'm just human though, I will have to sleep

It may sound like a miracle, but I am human too. And besides the fact that I need to sleep, I also need to go to work. In both cases, my PC is turned off, which means both of these actions are much less useful for me. Because they don't work offline. And while Poison doesn't work offline either, it works pretty well online.

Now let's look at a different situation. Each Zone ending in the number 6 or 1 increases the HP of enemies. For example, let's take Zones 0-9 at the start of the shard. In Zones 0-5 you will receive 21 Candles, and in zones 6-9 another 24 Candles. But Zones 0-5 you can pass in 2 minutes, and Zones 0-9 in 15 minutes. Which is more profitable: spend 15 minutes to get 45 Candles or spend 14 minutes to get 147 Candles and 4 more shards for a daily quest (7 rituals)?

I believe that it largely depends on personal preferences and individual characteristics of the daily routine. But for me, doing long runs is not only useless, but also not profitable.

And it's important to consider the main pitfall of game design: the player's desires can hurt the player. If the player wants to get as much as possible as quickly as possible, then at some point the player will quit the game simply because he has everything and has nothing to strive for. Resetting when moving to a new Galaxy is good. You always have something to strive for. In addition to this, you are given new opportunities to get what you want in a different way, to try new things, to feel new experiences. Maybe that's why, after trying a lot of idle games, you ended up in this one - which means you quit those games. So, by getting less in the short term, you get more in the long term.

But if you're not interested in trying something new in this game, maybe it's time to try another one? People on the forum can tell their point of view on the situation, but they cannot make you enjoy it.

[Nerex7]

I have to agree to disagree here. I move from other idle games because they are either bad, not finished yet, or because I simply finished them (about 500 hrs in AdCap and 500+ in Hero Clickers, the first and good one of course).

I now played Grim Clicker for 70 hrs and had all my progress removed for something that will neither speed up my future runs nor grant me any new or exciting mechanics. Something like this is the reason I quit past games, because it is bad. Nothing about this feels good or exciting. Nothing about this makes me look forward to going through the early, slow and boring stages of the game once more. The real excitement in this game sets in after about 3 shards if you ask me. And all this does to me is give me the impression of lazy game design, stretch the game out with excuses of this being good. It's not.

[chrissus]

there are still some interesting mechanics and loosing the flames isn't such a huge deal. I farmed a lot of flames in the last galaxy and it was like 1st reset and the whole shard is almost done. it would also be impossible to balance later shards for player 1 with like 100 flames and person 2 with 10000 flames. The real progress is in your items and the amount of souls. Upgraded weapons like the noname dagger tear throught the enemies (when you first enter the shard all your flames are useless anyways) and souls speed up the bar a lot

[rob_s_cat2]

Originally posted by Nerex7:

I have to agree to disagree here. I move from other idle games because they are either bad, not finished yet, or because I simply finished them (about 500 hrs in AdCap and 500+ in Hero Clickers, the first and good one of course).

I now played Grim Clicker for 70 hrs and had all my progress removed for something that will neither speed up my future runs nor grant me any new or exciting mechanics. Something like this is the reason I quit past games, because it is bad. Nothing about this feels good or exciting. Nothing about this makes me look forward to going through the early, slow and boring stages of the game once more. The real excitement in this game sets in after about 3 shards if you ask me. And all this does to me is give me the impression of lazy game design, stretch the game out with excuses of this being good. It's not.

not... speed... up... progress?! BAHAHAHA!!! THAT'S GOLDEN!!!

flame multi is not progress, it just feels like progress. get the +10 base damage and you'll see.
i do want to know how the hell it took you 70 hours to finish that first galaxy though. it only has 8 shards! are you totally not using boss souls or something?!

btw, don't go saying xx hours in a game. anyone can post numbers. i have more hours in this game (3420) than you've posted in all the games you mentioned, combined. and about 3 years in itrtg, where if you can't calculate optimal, you're never going to get anywhere near the top legitimately. not to mention 6 years in ch, and was one of the players that legitimately got to a position that they needed to introduce ascensions, and then later clans so others could benefit from my progress.
3 years in time clickers, 3 years in adcap, adcom, 7 years in sakura clicker... you get the idea.

[Nerex7]

not... speed... up... progress?! BAHAHAHA!!! THAT'S GOLDEN!!!

flame multi is not progress, it just feels like progress. get the +10 base damage and you'll see.
i do want to know how the hell it took you 70 hours to finish that first galaxy though. it only has 8 shards! are you totally not using boss souls or something?!

btw, don't go saying xx hours in a game. anyone can post numbers. i have more hours in this game (3420) than you've posted in all the games you mentioned, combined. and about 3 years in itrtg, where if you can't calculate optimal, you're never going to get anywhere near the top legitimately. not to mention 6 years in ch, and was one of the players that legitimately got to a position that they needed to introduce ascensions, and then later clans so others could benefit from my progress.
3 years in time clickers, 3 years in adcap, adcom, 7 years in sakura clicker... you get the idea.

Calculate optimally? In a game I play on the side? Ok Mr. No Life.

So what did you comment here for? Bragging? You did not contribute anything productive.

As I said above, the 10 damage become obsolete very quickly. They are only really interesting for the first shard, for a few minutes.

[Loken Stoneheart]

Originally posted by Nerex7:

Calculate optimally? In a game I play on the side? Ok Mr. No Life.

So what did you comment here for? Bragging? You did not contribute anything productive.

As I said above, the 10 damage become obsolete very quickly. They are only really interesting for the first shard, for a few minutes.

Exactly when does 10 base damage become obsolete on the noname dagger?
What are the stats on your dagger if you mouse over it?
It feels like you misunderstand how base damage works if you think 10 is bad.

Even if you've gotten your base to 1 cost, 100 damage (with no wax as you brag, which isnt even relevant, as those arent the stats of your weapon, they're multipliers. We aren't talking total damage here.)
That's still a 10% increase in damage.

[Nerex7]

Originally posted by Loken Stoneheart:

Exactly when does 10 base damage become obsolete on the noname dagger?
What are the stats on your dagger if you mouse over it?
It feels like you misunderstand how base damage works if you think 10 is bad.

Even if you've gotten your base to 1 cost, 100 damage (with no wax as you brag, which isnt even relevant, as those arent the stats of your weapon, they're multipliers. We aren't talking total damage here.)
That's still a 10% increase in damage.

It becomes obsolete the second I reach enough money to buy at least 1 level in one of my main weapons, which is 31k and you can reach that really quickly.

The dagger I use so far has a base damage of 5, of course, the 10 additional base damage would triple this. But that's absolutely unnecessary as I lowered its costs far enough to reliably 1 or 2shot everything until I get a level in my main weapon, making the whole 10 base damage obsolete quickly enough. I'm around stage 4 or 5 when my weapon hits level 80.
Sure, the 10 base damage can save me some time, I guess. But that's just a few minutes each galaxy on the first shard.

Once you get rolling with a tiny bit of wax, reaching my main weapons becomes a matter of seconds. My first main weapon has a base damage of 225, so the 10 really don't matter.

The points you get from finishing a galaxy just don't warrant a hard reset to me. They are not worth it. If you were to unlock a whole new mechanic to explore, even if it slowed you down the same way, would be a totally different story. But this so far, is just lazy.

Edit: Not to mention the other atrocious "bonusses" you can choose from. 1 strength or dex at all times? The reward for a hard reset is 1 skill point? Come one. Stuff like this just isn't good for a game like this, getting the progress erased for basically nothing.

[Rehwyn]

Originally posted by Nerex7:

As I said above, the 10 damage become obsolete very quickly. They are only really interesting for the first shard, for a few minutes.

I don't think you understand how weapon damage is calculated. Total weapon damage is Base Damage * Weapon Level * 1.25 ^ (Level/10 rounded down).

If you have a weapon with base damage of 25 and increase it by +10, it's now at 35 base damage. That's a 35/25 = 1.4x = 40% damage increase.

That's a 40% damage increase *at all levels of that weapon*. It doesn't matter if it's level 1 or level 300. For example, a weapon with 25 base damage at level 200 will have about 433,680 damage. A weapon with 35 base damage at level 200 will have 607,153 damage.

That never becomes obsolete.

Obviously, this perk benefits cheap, low base damage weapons more than heavy high damage weapons. But it sounds like you're using a charmed Noname Dagger, which is pretty much the ideal weapon to use with the +10 base damage syllable.

(EDIT: Catching up on your post, I've realized where one source of confusion lies. You haven't yet figured out that the Noname Dagger, properly charmed, is stronger than most any other weapon. Noname Dagger *is* your main weapon for a long time to come. Once you've upgraded it a bit, it'll become the only weapon you use. Other slots will be used for rings and similar items.)

More on topic, resetting the flame multiplier isn't a big deal. It's a temporary progress just to get through a galaxy.

Permanent sources of progress include:

• Shard shop upgrades. Moving on to a new galaxy means more bosses, which are 5 shards each. Get 4 each of the sp/level, +exp, +dmg, and +rubies upgrades and tell me that's not progress. Feel free to get some of the +black wax upgrades too, which are like Flame Multi, but stronger since they don't diminish at square root rate and are multiplicative with Flame Multi.
  
• Item upgrades. I guarantee you have a lot of opportunity for improvement after just 1 galaxy.
  
• Singularity points. You severely underestimate how strong some of these are, especially in combination. Poison soul action is easily a 30x+ multiplier on bosses with Wind King. As mentioned, +10 damage is quite strong with daggers. Later on you can get +1 sp/level, 1 discount on all stats, an extremely useful item for SP and EXP, removal of skill negative effects for first 4 levels, etc. Some may seem small, but they add up. And clearly there is room for more additions here (remember this game is early access).
  
• Curse Shrine progress. Unlock powerful seals, and then later on remove the negative effects. Skulls can be very powerful when used properly (each ring with skulls is roughly equivalent to 10-15 SP for me, and I have 5 of them)
  
• Boss souls progress. More souls = faster actions. Later on you can unlock multiple bars and upgrade individual actions (upgrading individual actions needs some refinement, but it was fairly recently added).

Thanks to these permanent progress sources, I can clear essentially any shard in 0-1 rituals and in under 30 minutes if I check back periodically to upgrade and spend SP. People like Rob can clear entire galaxies in less than a day without using ritual at all, ending with 1.0 Flame Power.

Frankly, after one galaxy you've only just begun to scratch the surface of permanent progress in this game. Resetting the flame power may seem like a big deal, but I guarantee you it makes little impact long-term.