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Roman's three brothers hatched a plan to show him that they have dirt on him. The dirt itself is maybe not relevant. They met with Roman in the bedroom upstairs (though the phone says to meet outside??) and upon finding out about the dirt, Roman kills one of the three brothers. In retaliation, one of the two remaining brothers gets into a scuffle with Roman that spilled toward the top of the stairs, in which Roman is thrown off. Then, one brother (the killer, or maybe someone waiting downstairs) drags his body outside, but not before putting on his coat (there is one coat missing from the rack and you can see the person stopped for a second in front of the rack.) Ellis is a rugby player and the huge coat is probably his and Glenn left his briefcase, so I think the person dragging away the body is Roger. But that doesn't necessarily mean he was the killer.
I tried several permutations of this to no avail. It's possible Roman was the killer in both cases, but what about the third brother? The owner of each of the phones is maybe relevant... the downstairs phone is Ellis' I think, and the upstairs phone must be Glenn's or Roger's, since it belongs to the person who is trying to meet with Roman.
I am also super confused about the hunting closet. Is that one big red herring? There is something removed from the drawer and I have no idea how that plays into anything.
The phone downstairs we assume belongs to Ellis, cause he talks like a douche-y jock, which we get from his speech and the postcard on his desk. We know Glenn is divorced with one daughter, because of the planner in his suitcase, which we know is his because he says he's a state lawyer, and he mentions the DA in the planner. So, the second conversation on the phone must be with Roger, because that person says his son looks up to Ellis. The deleted conversation connects it to the phone upstairs.
But whose phone is upstairs, Glenn or Roman? Probably Glenn, because the one conversation is with someone who clearly doesn't like him, and is taking a call outside, probably a business call, and again, the deleted conversation connects it to the phone downstairs, which we think belongs to Ellis.
How to determine the killer, in Ellis' room is a golf bag, and one club is removed and leaning against the door frame. No reason for that to be the case, other than swinging it around in the house. There are multiple marks on the walls on the upper floor, one on the floor in the room we think is Glenn's, a broken vase, a knocked over statue, etc. Probably, Ellis clubbed Glenn. I have no idea why, presumably something to do with their deleted conversation. I think Glenn was backing out of whatever they wanted to do to Roman, and was texting Roman to warn him.
After that it's pretty simple. Ellis goes downstairs and gets killed, but by who? Roman is probably still outside on the phone, but even if he's inside at the time of Ellis' death, we know Ellis was shot because of a shell casing in the living room and the missing pistol/disorder in the gun room. Only two people were taken hunting with their dad, Roger and Glenn, and Glenn has just been killed upstairs, so it must have been Roger.
As far as the second killing is concerned,
I believe what happens is this: Roger realizes that Ellis is trying to bash Glenn's head in with the golf bat. Glenn is probably Roger's closest friend among his 3 brothers, since they spent a lot of time together on the hunting trips, so Roger has a clear motive to come to his aid.
He rushes to the gun room (which he knows from the hunting trips), frantically grabs a handgun off the rack (accidentally smacking another of the 4 guns out of its rack - this gun is still lying on the floor), then frantically grabs ammunition to load the gun, hurries back and encounters Ellis, probably as he is trying to leave. Why he still shot him is anyone's best guess, but I'm not sure Roger was thinking very clearly at this point in time. Ellis might've also tried to attack Roger before realizing he was armed.
Since i can't think of a reason why the remaining 3 would all be upset with Glenn, i think that phone actually belongs to Glenn and they are talking about confronting Ellis about his rude eulogy, especially the "I will carry on the legacy and ensure our family's success" part, while he's clearly the least successful one.
So imo Glenn confronted Ellis which ended in them fighting. Ellis being a rugby player and just a rough guy in general, wins the fight ... ending in Glenn dying.
I personally think the two unique numbers ought to be a typo, since it only shows up for the last line.
If it isn't, it throws the entire case into complete and utter disarray. The phone number lines up with the number that was deleted on Glenn's phone, as I recall, implying that the conversation deleted was not between Glenn and Ellis. Furthermore, evidence suggests that Roger does not have a wife, so he's either the person shilling for his son (though the only confirmed person with a son we know is Roman), or the one with multiple kids at the wake.
However, that makes no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sense. Glenn is divorced with one daughter and there's no evidence of him remarrying. Roman is the only stated person to have a son but also is the most likely person to have multiple kids. And if Roger was going to react by shooting Ellis for him clubbing Glenn, why would he have been so fanatically shilling for Ellis when he was clearly crying his eyes out during the event?
You can come up with a logical line for it, but I think it really calls into question all of the logical lines that suggest the killer is Roger in the second part. Just because Roger and Glenn hunted didn't mean that Roman wouldn't know where the guns were kept. It's really easy to deduce the victims, but the second number on the phone is basically kicking up sand and completely obscuring why Roger would have any kind of motive to commit murder.
Like, it doesn't sound like it was supposed to have ended in Glenn's death based on original plotting, but what the hell am I supposed to think? It feels like my original logic didn't work and I should just assume we're supposed to look at the coat missing from the coathanger and decide it's Glenn based on that and nothing else.
Also, anyone want to propose an idea of why the hell we can examine the pest control card in the briefcase? Every single examinable item is relatively important for determining some kind of logical line somewhere, but that one feels so out of place as to be strange.
I thought about it being a typo but even then i can't think of a reason Ellis and Roman would say that Glenn has an attitude and has to be put in his place. Also them saying that "all 3 of us agree" makes more sense in a group chat, but is of course not a proof for it.
What evidence suggests anything about Rogers family status? I couldn't find anything about it. So assuming that the second number is not a typo and in case i didn't simply miss something ofc, this would be the only hint of him having a son (which doesnt matter for the percentage they get btw, even if he also had a wife he would get the same).
I don't really know what you mean with that Roger was fanatically shilling for Ellis, sorry maybe I'm dumb. And either way ... The phone conversation doesn't change the fact that he killed Ellis because Ellis killed Glenn. I don't see how it changes anything about the second murder. Maybe you can try to explain it in more detail if you don't mind?
Also about Roman, no matter if it was a typo or not, we know the person that is outside having a call cannot be Roman since we know Roman's number and the one from that conversation on the upstairs phone isn't coming up anywhere else.
Then about the deleted messages, I also first thought that that connects the 2 phones ... so that it's the same deleted message and that means that those 2 had a conversation but when you think about it they don't have to be connected at all since they both must have been deleted seperately anyways.
But then on the other hand, when the downstairs phone is Glenn's in my theory, then the upstairs one must be Ellis' ... and I have no clue why he would drop it there to then go down and get shot. Maybe it fell out during the fight and he just didn't pick it up... but still it lying there would make more sense when it was the victims phone, so Glenn's.
Regarding the pest control card, I have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clue man! It seems so random to me as well. But tbf i didn't pay attention to if the name on it appears anywhere else... There's a lot of names that seemingly don't matter at all in this case.
Fanatical shilling is referencing the person who says "My son looks up to you" - that's absolutely shilling or feeding Ellis's ego. If we assume there are 3 people in that text chat and all 3 are brothers, and they're talking about Glenn (and not Roman), that implies Roger either says "keep it away from my kids" or "my son looks up to you" re: Ellis harassing Glenn. It's incredibly implausible.
How do we know Roman's number? I don't recall that.
Re: deleted messages, it only makes sense (to me) if the only person we know for a fact was at both scenes deleted both messages - Ellis. I don't think the downstairs phone could be anyone but Ellis's (due to the stereotypical fratbro typing). So no, they don't have to be connected, but the best explanation is that the same person deleted them both.
There's also no reason to believe it would have fallen out of Ellis's pocket.
The most sensible version of events to me is that they're somehow expecting you to realize all 3 brothers sans Roman intended to pull dirt on Roman, but somehow Roman got Ellis to murder Glenn, and then Roger reacted to Ellis breaking trust by killing him. But without any compelling evidence on this front, we can't actually make the logical leap that Roman pulled some kind of jedi mind trick.
Add in that the 1911 number can't be Glenn if we take the phone upstairs as his, since as I recall, the deleted number is the 1911 number. So... like, what else can we guess here??
It's just a mess. Very glad they're intending to add explanations for these cases.
Basically, they were going to blackmail Roman, but Glenn decided to warn Roman, and Roman left before anyone could talk to him. Ellis found out (somehow) that Glenn had warned Roman and got angry with him, eventually leading to a fight which ended with him strangling Glenn to death. Roger ended up killing Ellis for killing their brother.
I personally don’t think it was feasible to deduce the motives for that first death. I also disliked how much wasted space there was in this case, and how many examínale things in the mansion have nothing to do with the case.
I also didn’t really like that the percentages of the inheritance felt useless in the end, since they were ultimately pretty similar. It all came down to the brothers thinking that Roman was being disrespectful and planning against him (who knows how), but then one of them ended up getting cold feet (which I don’t see how we could realistically guess) and was ultimately killed in a crime of passion. I just feel like it would have been a more satisfying case had they could have developed the characters more and made the percentages vary more greatly.
It was strange to see 1311 suddenly appear in a conversation with 4302 in the black phone.
Is this a group chat?
From the common point of deleting messages
Let's say you expected the black phone to be 5766 and the white phone to be 1311.
However, I was also very confused by the fact that the group chat history was not saved on the white phone.
- My big problem is Ellis *really* lacks motive. The one thing that would make sense is if he was counting on the blackmail for money - we find gambling receipts - but he says himself that he's about to be loaded with the inheritance, and the split ends up fairly even with his brothers. So the whole premise is that a troubled, but perfectly-stable-seeming guy turns violently against a brother for not letting him get petty revenge on another.
- It also made sense for "the dirt on him" to come from Glenn, since he was a lawyer, so, clearly he was the brains of the operation, and wouldn't back out, right?
- Glenn's "we need to talk" text could just as easily have been luring Roman over for the confrontation than to warn him of it. Hell, WHY NOT warn him over text?
- There's also what now appears to be an accidental red herring - an extra golf club in Ellis's room. There's one with an "S" by the door, (sand wedge?) but another in the golf bag. A golf club could have been used to overpower and strangle the bedroom victim, regardless of who had peaked in high school sports.
I REALLY like the dev's approach, both here and in Painscreek. I don't think this game would have been made "too easy" by describing the scene when we arrive better, and painting a clearer picture of time frame. Yes, the left behind phones and luggage indicate that Ellis and Glenn hadn't left of their own volition, but for all I knew, it was because they were caught with the body or brought in for questioning. Or they just stepped out for dinner and were on their way back. They both sound like they're coming in from way out of town too, so it would just make sense for them to stay at their dad's manor.
I still feel like a good detective even though I looked up some solutions, because I probably would have been briefed on something more than "there was a 911 call".