Is It Always This Slow?

[Rephath]

I've played some other Phoenix Wright games. But this one seems to be less interactive than most. I just spent 4.5 hours on the first case, and it was excruciatingly boring. Make a point. Spend one minute blathering pointlessly. Spend 3 minutes discussing whether Miss Brett can leave (she can't). Spend 2 minutes getting back to the point I was trying to make. Make the point. Stunned reactions from everyone. Then explain the point in more detail. Then another minute of the prosecution not getting what I say, and the judge also mentioning that he doesn't understand it, so I take another few minutes and explain it. And then the prosecution says that even with this point made, I still haven't proven this case in its entirety, and the judge agrees and is about to dismiss the case, and then we spend a few minutes panicking and saying this is the end. And then after 15-20 minutes of this nonsense the game finally becomes interactive for 10 seconds as I point out the obvious clue. And then we repeat this entire process in its entirety for another 20 minutes of non-interactive cutscene?

Is it even worth continuing to play this game? Do they start blathering less and letting me play more? Or is it all this tedious?

[Blue_Glasses]

"I'll skip pre-trial sections of ch. 4"


"I'm at trial of ch. 4, it's terrible"

[sling_shot]

Publicado originalmente por Blue_Glasses:

"I'll skip pre-trial sections of ch. 4"

"I'm at trial of ch. 4, it's terrible"

Not mutually exclusive. As I said, I didn't need to pay attention to the pre-trial section of ch 4 to understand the case, since all the evidence was given to me during the trial.

And as it turns out, the case revolves around a series of incredibly convenient pieces of evidence -- tied together a-la deus ex machina -- that only pop up right before you need them. It's bad.

[ShinChuck]

Publicado originalmente por Point Man:

Publicado originalmente por Blue_Glasses:

"I'll skip pre-trial sections of ch. 4"

"I'm at trial of ch. 4, it's terrible"

Not mutually exclusive. As I said, I didn't need to pay attention to the pre-trial section of ch 4 to understand the case, since all the evidence was given to me during the trial.

And as it turns out, the case revolves around a series of incredibly convenient pieces of evidence -- tied together a-la deus ex machina -- that only pop up right before you need them. It's bad.

I haven't finished Resolve yet (I'm on 2-4), but so far I feel like GAA has done a much better job of putting together cases that made sense. I've been able to currently deduce and present evidence with only 2-3 fails total across everything so far. Where was the deus ex machina in 1-4?

Genuinely curious, not trying to start stuff, just for myself I've been fairly impressed with the logic of the GAA cases. No obligations if you don't feel like going in detail!

[Blue_Glasses]

Publicado originalmente por ShinChuck:

Publicado originalmente por Point Man:

Not mutually exclusive. As I said, I didn't need to pay attention to the pre-trial section of ch 4 to understand the case, since all the evidence was given to me during the trial.

And as it turns out, the case revolves around a series of incredibly convenient pieces of evidence -- tied together a-la deus ex machina -- that only pop up right before you need them. It's bad.

Where was the deus ex machina in 1-4?

I assume they meant the final piece of evidence, or the final cross-examination in general. Though, i wouldn't really call that a deus ex machina, as it wasn't completely unexpected

[ShinChuck]

Publicado originalmente por Blue_Glasses:

Publicado originalmente por ShinChuck:

Where was the deus ex machina in 1-4?

I assume they meant the final piece of evidence, or the final cross-examination in general. Though, i wouldn't really call that a deus ex machina, as it wasn't completely unexpected

Ohhhh, the piece of the knife? Fair enough. It's really the timing that makes it feel too convenient. They could have set it up better by having Garrideb mention something earlier about his pipe having issues, or attempting to smoke it and looking at it funny.

They did mention it being part of a "series" of deus ex machina, though. I thought the previous cross examination was pretty well done.

[Elihu Yale]

Publicado originalmente por point-blank:

Publicado originalmente por Mr. Duck Sauce:

I've played some other Phoenix Wright games.

Did you? DID you REALLY? Because that is how all the games are played. You're a liar, you never played it before.

Well I DID and I can assest that this game is notably more verbose and packed with smalltalk than 1/2/3/4/6. 5 was particulary irritating as well.
In every other game in the series (save 5) the narrative serves the purpose of making the plot advance while you're doing the detective stuff, collecting evidence and statements.

I'm at chapter 4 of this game and I'm not collecting any evidence/statements at all, it's all being given to me during the trial. I even skipped the entire non-trial section of an episode 4 and I'm 100% sure that I'll be able to beat the chapter anyway.

I know this is an old post but I need to ask you. I enjoy the first 4 games and AAI2 is okay but has too much pointless dialogue. Game 5 sucked so bad and this seems like more of the same.

I can't trust fanboys so I'm asking is 6 worth playing? My problem with 5 was the endless blathering and how easy it was. They would basically tell you the answers.

[Freekill]

Publicado originalmente por Elihu Yale:

Publicado originalmente por point-blank:

Well I DID and I can assest that this game is notably more verbose and packed with smalltalk than 1/2/3/4/6. 5 was particulary irritating as well.
In every other game in the series (save 5) the narrative serves the purpose of making the plot advance while you're doing the detective stuff, collecting evidence and statements.

I'm at chapter 4 of this game and I'm not collecting any evidence/statements at all, it's all being given to me during the trial. I even skipped the entire non-trial section of an episode 4 and I'm 100% sure that I'll be able to beat the chapter anyway.

I know this is an old post but I need to ask you. I enjoy the first 4 games and AAI2 is okay but has too much pointless dialogue. Game 5 sucked so bad and this seems like more of the same.

I can't trust fanboys so I'm asking is 6 worth playing? My problem with 5 was the endless blathering and how easy it was. They would basically tell you the answers.

Every game starts slow like that with lots of blathering, so you can expect more in the beginning of each game, same for 6, but justified since they introduce new stuff to the trial.

Also worth noting that 6 is fairly better overall, 5 was the introduction of Athena and while she is a alright character, they didn't use her to the fullest in either 5 and 6, and had to divide the attention to three protagonists, and Ace Attorney loves building a entire plotline with plenty of dialogue with the protagonists (there is 3, so yeah), that makes it with a LOT of text. Great plot twist tho.

6 goes with less padding to the base backstory and such since we already got plenty on 5, now we got a fuller perspective on Apollo since it is his family there, the new mechanics are neat even if a little out there, and the hype train is real on the ending, so yeah, 6 is better. Dunno why Athena is there since they didn't do much with her but she is in the ride, and we got some old faces showing up.

No Gumshoe tho.

TL;DR, 6 is worth playing yes, there is less padding on story, even if they need to explain a whole new place. They cooked with Apollo, but Athena is still under cooked.

[Rephath]

One of the problems with Great Ace Attorney specifically is that the text goes by really slowly. The other games I played have a button you can press to have the text instantly appear. This one does not. So it makes it much slower. How big of an issue this is for people will likely depend on their reading speed.

[IndigoAK]

The text speed is the main culprit. Even the text skip option in the menu is not actually instant.

An instant text option really should be the standard in any game with mountains of text. My issue with this game and others like it where the text appears slowly isn't that I dislike reading (because I love reading), but that I read faster than the text appears. Knowing I could have gotten through a case in an hour when in reality it takes four because the text is so slow doesn't make me want to continue. I've had to take a break twice now before reaching even the first save point in Case 2 because I find the speed of the text agonizing.

[[J4CE] [Keyblλder] J-18]

I agree with OP. I've played through AA 1-6 multiple times and TGAA is so much slower because so much dialogue just repeats itself

[Hotel Security]

On subject, I did miss stuff like the mental locks, like in Ace Attorney 2 & 3. It allowed the player to do even a little investigating and interrogating even outside of the court. Each "investigation" period would end with you dramatically breaking someone's lock. They added other minigames to investigations later but it felt they had more to it. Sometimes Mystic Maya would be involved as well.

With this one it's just the standard of searching a room and then asking people stuff. It's not terrible but other games spiced up this stuff a lot more. Feels like it was too scaled back.

[0wnz0r]

it aint u tc. this games got a lotta unnecessary fluff n pointless dialogue. at times it moves like a slow crawl. not sure y they cant do it, but nothin compares to the original trilogy n the ace investigations miles edgeworth games.

[ShinChuck]

Publicado originalmente por 0wnz0r:

it aint u tc. this games got a lotta unnecessary fluff n pointless dialogue. at times it moves like a slow crawl. not sure y they cant do it, but nothin compares to the original trilogy n the ace investigations miles edgeworth games.

I dunno, I might like the GAA better than the original trilogy. It's a tough call.

But the original trilogy definitely did better in terms of the ideal of "brevity is the soul of wit". I'm not sure why so many games lard up the dialogue anymore. It almost turned me off of this game in the second case, and other games, like FFXIV, which is a great MMO but moves along at a glacial pace in terms of dialogue, especially early on.

[IndigoAK]

I think a lot of game writers just aren't as good at writing as their fans (and probably they themselves) like to believe they are.

Being overly verbose is something that's generally criticized in the realm of literature, but gamers and the gaming press haven't seemed to get on the same page yet.

You mentioned Final Fantasy XIV - which is a great example - but another example is Falcom's Trails series. People harp on and on about how amazing the writing is in those games, but like FFXIV, you could 35-40% of the script and you would still have the same exact game. All of the times the characters meet someone new and rehash everything that's happened over the last four games, every time something happens and all 39 characters react one by one, all the times Rean derails a conversation to make excuses for a mass murderer.

[Hotel Security]

>I think a lot of game writers just aren't as good at writing as their fans

I couldn't disagree with this more. Yes, game developers aren't the best at writing compared to other mediums like TV/movies/books, but they also have the challenge of having to build plot around game mechanics which get in the way.

From what I've seen, "fan writing" is usually lacking in humor, uncreative, immature, tries to tackle "deep" subjects in childish ways, and is filled with nerd-property cliches. The few that are somehow competent come out a sea of thousands that aren't. No thanks. I'll take the professionals.

For me, the writing in the game is less the issue but the gameplay could have used spicing up...just give players more to do in investigations then inspect stuff and ask questions. Past games have done this but AAC went away from that.

>You mentioned Final Fantasy XIV - which is a great example - but another example is Falcom's Trails series.

I'd say almost all modern RPGs fall into this trap. The few that don't (Tales of Vesperia) stand out like a sore thumb. Part of why I went away from RPGs is because every story had the same cliches. It's funny how RPGs are considered story-heavy games but I find the stories in other genres to often be much better.