The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles

The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles

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an interesting discrepancy in translation...
So in the first chapter of the game they made it clear that "you" are speaking and reading Japanese and that you can not understand English all that well with the first twist in the first case. Which is all fine and good, even though it is a bit weird that the "Japense" is written in English and the English is written in illegible scribble. But then the very next chapter after not much time has past when a certain character (avoiding spoilers) says "I descended from the heavens. Because I am an angel" to which you reply "Considering English isn't your mother tongue, your description is very vivid"

Should that have said "Considering Japanese isn't..." or did you get a 1 week crash course in English going from not being able to understand without a translator to understanding it fluently?

Yeah I know that is kind of nitpicking but comparing the time frame they gave in the game it just seems weird to go from "I can not understand a word without a translator" to "I speak it fluently" in less then a month.

I am sure what probably happened was two different people translated chapter one and chapter 2 and so the chapter 2 translator didn't realize that in chapter one the characters were described as to not understanding a lick of English.
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
sombrez Aug 7, 2021 @ 2:32pm 
Ryunosuke and Kazuma say something along the lines of "As far as I can tell, the translation is accurate" in the first case, implying they can understand the English woman. I think the translator is for the entire court, who might not know English. The illegible scribbles are just what everyone else is experiencing.

Here is the image of what they say in the first case: https://i.imgur.com/XBvCTt8.png
Last edited by sombrez; Aug 7, 2021 @ 2:32pm
Zakdj Aug 7, 2021 @ 4:49pm 
I remember it being explained that Mrs Brett spoke extremely posh and high class English, The Queens English. Naruhodo and Co know English, just her level of English is EXTREMELY British
shrek's outhouse Aug 7, 2021 @ 5:00pm 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dEKQL0I4LU
try to understand this. it's still english

not a good example but it should give you an idea as to why no one except Hosonaga can understand her.
Narmy Aug 7, 2021 @ 5:12pm 
The translator in the first case is more for the rest of the court than it is for Naruhodo, he was an English major in college. The characters in chapter 2 are speaking in English rather than Japanese.
Last edited by Narmy; Aug 7, 2021 @ 5:14pm
hockeyhacker97 Aug 7, 2021 @ 6:52pm 
Originally posted by shrek's outhouse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dEKQL0I4LU
try to understand this. it's still english

not a good example but it should give you an idea as to why no one except Hosonaga can understand her.
I can understand that perfectly fine, sounds like just good old modern English to me, though I think your point would have been better served using a video of someone speaking old English, which is still English but way different from modern English. But still, if you look at those two chapters side by side, with the way it was explained it definitely seems like one set of person(s) translated chapter one while a second set of person(s) translated chapter 2 because if they were going that route in chapter one it shouldn't have been "I think it sounds accurate" but rather "yeah that is accurate" with a little more certainty in their English skills.

I am not saying the translations contradict per say, just that they don't flow like a single person doing the translating, hence why I used the word "discrepancy" and not "contradiction", two very similar but not exactly the same words. you can have a discrepancy without having a contradiction but you can't have a contradiction without having a discrepancy. Yes most people use the words like synonyms but there is a slight difference in meaning. "A lack of similarity or comparability between two or more facts" does not necessarily mean contradicting or opposing facts.

But yes I do see your point even if the video you used was not a good example of English vs posh English and was more just an example of thick accents.
McFuzz Aug 9, 2021 @ 3:30am 
It says at one point, that Ryunosuke was a second year English student at university. Which is why he doesn't struggle with the English language. The Jezaille Brett English scribble is just an attempt to show you how out of place she is, because as people mentioned above, the protags can understand her whereas the prosecution cannot.

...But basically, yeah, don't think about it too much. They addressed it to the degree they needed to for it to make sense in late 1800s international setting, while leaving a little to be desired in the exact realism. Otherwise the options would be speaking through a translator for the whole game, or constantly going "WHAT, HUH, DO YOU SPEAK JAPANESE", or totally ignoring that different nationalities speak different languages.
Last edited by McFuzz; Aug 9, 2021 @ 3:39am
ZexxCrine Aug 9, 2021 @ 8:40am 
They literally say they can both understand her.
hockeyhacker97 Aug 9, 2021 @ 9:09am 
Originally posted by ZexxCrine:
They literally say they can both understand her.
Umm no, they go to the translation "yeah I THINK that sounds right", meaning their comprehension of English is ok but not great. Story wise it would have made more sense if there was say a 3-6 month gap between chapter 1 and 2 as a pose to a 2 week gap to allow them time to have an improvement in comprehension.

Notice I never said contradiction but rather discrepancy, two very similar but also different meaning words.

A contradiction would be if in chapter 1 they didn't understand English at all and then in chapter 2 two week later they knew it fluently. A discrepancy would be they understood it okish but not perfect in chapter 1 and then knew it perfectly in the 2 weeks till chapter 2. A more realistic situation would be if they knew it partially in chapter one and fluently in chapter 2 if say 3-6 months had passed for them to have time to practice their English that little bit more. The time frame to go from "I think that sounds correct" to "I understand 100% perfectly without any mistranslation what so ever and can complement someone else's ESL for it's elegance because I understand what is and isn't elegant English despite having just learned it" is the dependency, not the fact that they knew it.

I have a feeling that you are thinking I was using the word discrepancy like a synonym for the word contradiction, which I was not, I was using it as its literal meaning and not for how people often misuse it.
Seb | セビ Aug 9, 2021 @ 9:26am 
Originally posted by hockeyhacker97:
Originally posted by ZexxCrine:
They literally say they can both understand her.
Umm no, they go to the translation "yeah I THINK that sounds right", meaning their comprehension of English is ok but not great. Story wise it would have made more sense if there was say a 3-6 month gap between chapter 1 and 2 as a pose to a 2 week gap to allow them time to have an improvement in comprehension.

Notice I never said contradiction but rather discrepancy, two very similar but also different meaning words.

A contradiction would be if in chapter 1 they didn't understand English at all and then in chapter 2 two week later they knew it fluently. A discrepancy would be they understood it okish but not perfect in chapter 1 and then knew it perfectly in the 2 weeks till chapter 2. A more realistic situation would be if they knew it partially in chapter one and fluently in chapter 2 if say 3-6 months had passed for them to have time to practice their English that little bit more. The time frame to go from "I think that sounds correct" to "I understand 100% perfectly without any mistranslation what so ever and can complement someone else's ESL for it's elegance because I understand what is and isn't elegant English despite having just learned it" is the dependency, not the fact that they knew it.

I have a feeling that you are thinking I was using the word discrepancy like a synonym for the word contradiction, which I was not, I was using it as its literal meaning and not for how people often misuse it.
thats not what was being said though. now youre twisting the facts to fit your narrative
hockeyhacker97 Aug 9, 2021 @ 9:47am 
Originally posted by Seb | セビ:
Originally posted by hockeyhacker97:
Umm no, they go to the translation "yeah I THINK that sounds right", meaning their comprehension of English is ok but not great. Story wise it would have made more sense if there was say a 3-6 month gap between chapter 1 and 2 as a pose to a 2 week gap to allow them time to have an improvement in comprehension.

Notice I never said contradiction but rather discrepancy, two very similar but also different meaning words.

A contradiction would be if in chapter 1 they didn't understand English at all and then in chapter 2 two week later they knew it fluently. A discrepancy would be they understood it okish but not perfect in chapter 1 and then knew it perfectly in the 2 weeks till chapter 2. A more realistic situation would be if they knew it partially in chapter one and fluently in chapter 2 if say 3-6 months had passed for them to have time to practice their English that little bit more. The time frame to go from "I think that sounds correct" to "I understand 100% perfectly without any mistranslation what so ever and can complement someone else's ESL for it's elegance because I understand what is and isn't elegant English despite having just learned it" is the dependency, not the fact that they knew it.

I have a feeling that you are thinking I was using the word discrepancy like a synonym for the word contradiction, which I was not, I was using it as its literal meaning and not for how people often misuse it.
thats not what was being said though. now youre twisting the facts to fit your narrative

Now admittedly I did use the wrong word of understand when I should have used the word comprehend saying "Yeah I know that is kind of nitpicking but comparing the time frame they gave in the game it just seems weird to go from "I can not understand a word without a translator" to "I speak it fluently" in less then a month."

BUT the point of the desceprency being the time and not the comprehension was clearly still their despite using a single wrong word entirely changing the meaning of the sentence. So while you are not wrong that I misspoke, the original point was still there of it being a time issue and not a comprehension issue.
hockeyhacker97 Aug 9, 2021 @ 9:59am 
Originally posted by Seb | セビ:
...

In other words you are correct that I did misspeak originally, but the narrative of "the understanding isn't the issue, but rather the time frame to go from one level of understanding to the other level of understanding" was always there and has not changed at all. Though I do find it amusing that I did use a very specific word with a very specific meaning while at the same time managed to totally blunder a more obvious word with a more obvious meaning, kind of like noticing the damage to a shirt of a single thread being torn while totally missing the fact the shirt has a bloody dagger sticking through it. being so fine point on the details while totally missing the obvious.

But yeah my issue wasn't with the comprehension but rather the time frame between "I think that sounds right, maybe it is?" to "Oh how dapper of you to speak in such a finely tuned eloquent tongue despite being quite foreign to your Russian nature of which I would expect much more elementary words spewing from ones quaint mount"

The fact it went from "I think that is right but I can not confirm it with certainty" to critiquing how fancy someone is talking in less then a month was the point and has always been the point.
Seb | セビ Aug 9, 2021 @ 10:08am 
Originally posted by hockeyhacker97:
"I think that sounds right, maybe it is?".
thats not the quote, its "the detective is translating her words faithfully enough". even with the "as far as i can tell" preceding it, theres no issue of understanding there. you could even interpret it as them knowing better than the detective.
they even follow it up with "her english doesnt rattle you at all, does it?"
hockeyhacker97 Aug 9, 2021 @ 10:11am 
Originally posted by Seb | セビ:
Originally posted by hockeyhacker97:
"I think that sounds right, maybe it is?".
thats not the quote, its "the detective is translating her words faithfully enough". even with the "as far as i can tell" preceding it, theres no issue of understanding there. you could even interpret it as them knowing better than the detective.
they even follow it up with "her english doesnt rattle you at all, does it?"

Yes exactly "As far as I can tell", in other words "I believe so but I am not 100% certain" "as far as I can tell" is a statement of uncertainty.

Edit: In other words the one who is trying to become a lawyer has a better comprehension of English but still isn't 100% certain while as your character has a grasp on English but hasn't studied as hard as the one who is trying to study law abroad.
Last edited by hockeyhacker97; Aug 9, 2021 @ 10:16am
sombrez Aug 9, 2021 @ 11:19am 
https://i.imgur.com/XBvCTt8.png

Ryunosuke and Kazuma say that her English doesn't rattle them at all. Look at the bottom.
hockeyhacker97 Aug 9, 2021 @ 12:11pm 
Originally posted by sombrez:
https://i.imgur.com/XBvCTt8.png

Ryunosuke and Kazuma say that her English doesn't rattle them at all. Look at the bottom.
Read that again but slower and you will see what it means, I will write out exactly what it say and then exactly what it translates to

Kaz- "As far as I can tell... the detective is translating her words faithfully enough."
Ryu- "Yes I agree. Haha, you'll obviously do fin in England, Kaz. Her English doesn't rattle you at all, does it?"
kaz- "Nor you. You've clearly been paying attension in your English classe, Ryu"

Kaz "As far as I can tell, I am not 100% certain but it sounds close enough"
Ryu "I agree it sounds close enough. You will do well studying abroad, sound like you can keep up with the native speaker, can you?"
Kaz- "Sounds like you are keeping up just fine as well despite your lack of confidence, you must be doing well in your English classes"

Ryu at no point says the English doesn't rattle him, in fact quite the opposite, it rattles him a tiny bit and he is impressed that Kaz isn't rattled at all.

Basically putting Kaz at a level somewhere on the scale of high level intermediate to low level advanced, where as it puts Ryu somewhere in the mid to not quite as high but still high level intermediate.

You have to remember that in all languages native speakers don't actually their proper language when speaking and instead use modified sounds to where it sounds extremely quick to a non native speaker. For example no English speaker would say "Don't you know where our things are" we would say "don cha know where are things are" because don't you it to hard to say so it comes out don cha, and our is a two syllable word that forces a pause before and after the word to properly pronounce which we just make into one syllable and use an entirely different word just to be able to say it without the pauses. Listening to English as words is very very different from listening to English as a language. The same is true with any other language as well, they use entirely different sounds rather then individual words for the same reasons so sentence flow. The fact of not being rattled by her English isn't so much a statement of fully understanding her English as it is a statement of being able to understand the weird sound usage that a native speaker uses as a pose to what you learn in a class room.

Language isn't just literal words but also how those words are used, you are taking the words way to literal and not reading how those words are being used.Same reason why you can say the exact same sentence where the words are the exact same and the only difference is body language and they can mean polar opposite things depending on how you say the words. For example "Screw you, go home" and "Screw you go home"have two very different meanings despite looking the same on paper, using one body language it can translate to "blank off leave here you are not welcome here" and in another body language it can mean "hey thanks for the offer of help but you have already put in 80 hours this week, go home to your family and enjoy your time off we can fix this issue", both are the exact same sentence with two very different meanings depending on how you read it. That is the problem with written text is that we can both read the exact same words and get two very different meanings depending on how we perceive the context.
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