What are conditions for branching a house for AI?

[Dumah]

Asking because it seems really, really stupid that in the country built around house rivalry ( admin ) my damn relatives branch off ass soon as i give them land. Who the hell designed this? What is the logic behind it? The guy gets a land to govern while being a part of most powerful house in the empire... only to branch off few month later and create a pointless minor house...

[brownacs]

Same as they are for the player I think. And yeah, it's a bit annoying with that system. It's even worse with the Japanese imperial dynasty; your landed dynasty members create new dynasties pretty frequently, which isn't ideal. You can kinda game it by creating a mixed clan/admin realm (start out as clan, convert to admin, which should only convert the vassals in your de jure title, more often than not an empire, then promote from the remaining dynastic clan members), but then you both get a lot of lag, or I have when I've done it, and don't get some of the benefits of having admin house members. You do get more renown though. Otherwise yeah, it's kinda annoying, but it's still fairly easy to be the most powerful house by miles.

[Dumah]

Originally posted by brownacs:

creating a mixed clan/admin realm

[Archer the Bowless]

Cadet branches are the reason I made my own mod. I'm not a modder but AI exists so I put it to the test and made my own Cadet Branch Mod. Consider making one yourself if you're not afraid of the machine...
With my mod I could do something like raise the prestige level to 5 so only characters who've lived a long while and accumulated all that prestige could create one. That wouldn't really effect the other ways the game creates Cadets like Admin realms do, or Norse Adventures.
My most important feature in the mod is making a Dynasty need to be at least level 3 in renown before anyone in the dynasty can make a Cadet. This way new houses don't split off after a generation, and only Dynasties who've passed the test of time can start doing that.

[Fairmane]

what i found the most cancerous about cadet branches also, is how TASTELESS the AI is at creating new family.. the name choices, the awful quartering designs, the absolute ilogical and random choice of emblems and colors that reflected nothing about the dynasty, the previous family he offshot of, no concept or rationale just ruining the whole map with their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ new family that if i encounter and can't edit i'll deliberately try to destroy simply because of their stupid sigil.

[Dumah]

Originally posted by Fairmane:

what i found the most cancerous about cadet branches also, is how TASTELESS the AI is at creating new family.. the name choices, the awful quartering designs, the absolute ilogical and random choice of emblems and colors that reflected nothing about the dynasty, the previous family he offshot of, no concept or rationale just ruining the whole map with their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ new family that if i encounter and can't edit i'll deliberately try to destroy simply because of their stupid sigil.

- true. If you turn game at later start date an look at some historical dynasties, you will see that houses inside those dynasties have their own "custom" CoA's. But as soon as you unpause game... all of this will be gone... quartered.

[armyissue69]

Requirements to Create a Cadet Branch
To create a cadet branch, certain conditions must be met:

Character Type: The character must be an adult ruler.
Government Type: The character's government type must allow for the creation of cadet branches (not tribal).
Dynasty Status: The character cannot already be the head of the house.
Family Relation: The character must not be a third cousin or closer to the head of the dynasty.

Just pulled this from Google AI (lol)

What's the advantage? Well, let's say you are a duke, and you capture another duchy and hand it out. They later have more troops than you and become house head and have all the dynasty interactions such as stopping wars, deciding dynasty traits, etc.

[Dumah]

Originally posted by armyissue69:

Requirements to Create a Cadet Branch
To create a cadet branch, certain conditions must be met:

Character Type: The character must be an adult ruler.
Government Type: The character's government type must allow for the creation of cadet branches (not tribal).
Dynasty Status: The character cannot already be the head of the house.
Family Relation: The character must not be a third cousin or closer to the head of the dynasty.

Just pulled this from Google AI (lol)

What's the advantage? Well, let's say you are a duke, and you capture another duchy and hand it out. They later have more troops than you and become house head and have all the dynasty interactions such as stopping wars, deciding dynasty traits, etc.

- i specifically asked about AI thou. There has to be a trigger for them to do that... and trigger is freaking stupid in the case with admin empire.

[armyissue69]

Originally posted by Dumah:

- i specifically asked about AI thou. There has to be a trigger for them to do that... and trigger is freaking stupid in the case with admin empire.

Right right, well ... I think CK3 did a pretty good job (enough? maybe not but, pretty good) at having some rulers be ambitious, aggressive, making bold decisions and some cowardly, don't spend money, sit tight in their castles, etc.

Now, why would I add that... I think you could play Skane (Denmark) .. they ARE NOT the house head, and I challenge you to play through without creating a branch AND not taking aggressive actions to your house head (to make you the house head by removing their lands and titles). You will not be able to decide about legacies, divorces (that have to be approved), etc. BUT, the moment you create a branch, the game makes you the house head IF you are more powerful (if you play well) because you'd have more troops, probably a duke at least.

These rulers create branches so they can make dynasty interactions even IF they are not Dynasty Head, they ARE the house head.

[brownacs]

Originally posted by armyissue69:

AND not taking aggressive actions to your house head (to make you the house head by removing their lands and titles).

That wouldn't even work. House head status is hereditary unless you're clan with their challenge house head status mechanic. You'd have to murder or arrange inter-dynastic marriages until you ended up house head.

Originally posted by Dumah:

- i specifically asked about AI thou. There has to be a trigger for them to do that... and trigger is freaking stupid in the case with admin empire.

I think they take the decision as soon as it's available. That's usually the case anyway with other decisions.

[Dumah]

Originally posted by brownacs:

I think they take the decision as soon as it's available. That's usually the case anyway with other decisions.

- looks like it. People who declared their own houses were indeed just of my dynasty, not my close relatives.