Is Religion the only way to change gender laws?

[Salem Graves]

I just had a random idea for a game to take over one of the Muslim empires in the game and make it either equal or female dominated. Is the only way to do this to create a new Muslim religion and change it there? Or is there another way to go about this?

[Sgt. Sarge]

why tho

[Salem Graves]

Originally posted by Sgt. Pariah:

why tho

Because

[dwarfpcfan]

@OP: unfortunately regardless of your succession laws (and paying prestige for it) your religion overrides those laws. The only way around that is through unique cultural traditions such as cultures that have warrior queens for female rulers or a few others (which I can't remember on top of my head)

Theorethically if you start in East Africa there's 3-4 cultures that have the warrior queen tenet which you could then convert to a muslim faith, but I'm not sure if Islam specifically allows that tactic. It definitely works with christianity though.

[CrUsHeR]

Yeah man i really gotta ask, why would you even consider that.

There is literally only one advantage of playing a female ruler, and that's the fact that you always know that your children are of your own blood.

Everything else in this game is really really terrible as female ruler.

[vortex_13]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Yeah man i really gotta ask, why would you even consider that.

There is literally only one advantage of playing a female ruler, and that's the fact that you always know that your children are of your own blood.

Everything else in this game is really really terrible as female ruler.

There's literally no difference though.

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

There is literally only one advantage of playing a female ruler, and that's the fact that you always know that your children are of your own blood.

So you're saying that with some culture/faith changes it's actually more advantageous to play fem rulers.

[armyissue69]

I think the culture trait is something like "egalitarian" and allows you to enact female stuff. But...you will take a hit from cultures that are in men dominated society. For instance a vassal of a different culture may have negative opinion modifiers.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by vortex_13:

There's literally no difference though.

Mega facepalm


Ideally, any male ruler would wait until he is 30-35 years old before having the first baby. There are plenty of reasons for that, for example so the heir isn't 60-70 years old when inheriting the throne (Hi Charles). Also in contrast, a 16 year old ruler getting married would probably have like 10+ kids even before hitting the 30 years mark.

Though for females rulers this isn't possible, at 30+ they have to be glad to get pregnant at all. Leading straight to the next problem:


The risk of death in childbirth. If this happens, there's a random chance that either the baby dies as well, or you have to continue playing as a 0-year old baby which cannot use most diplomatic interactions. And since the recent DLC, is running into the risk of ending up in a permanent regency even after coming of age.


Even if very obvious, it needs to be said - in the most typical and largest faith in CK3, adultery is only criminal for females, not for males. So while a male adulterer gets a "tsk, tsk" from his liege and the pope, a female adultress goes straight to prison. And probably to hell, too.
Historically the reason is pretty obvious, if the male husband cannot trust his children actually being his own bloodline, this undermines the very foundation of society.


Also there is one really massive problem for any faith/culture allowing equal inheritance (and thus rulers). If two rulers get married, their children will inherit titles from both. Which is a massive clusterf* of bordergore.
Example a Duke and a Duchess get married, their common firstborn child inherits both titles, and the others inherit random counties within both realms. This makes the map look like swiss cheese, half their counties are subject to "not rightful liege" 50% tax penalty, and there is no actual method to solve this afterwards.
Besides the fact that you now have a double-duke vassal, which is something you'd normally try to prevent under all circumstances.


And maybe anyone here has ever done an even slightly "evil" playthrough - example that powerful vassal of yours with multiple titles, no wife, and only 1 heir?
How about you get him married to that young wife, then seduce her over and over
until he has 7+ sons. Oh but dayumed, you're a female ruler, and seducing only makes yourself pregnant. Well...?


And the roleplay side - good lord. So now you're playing a female ruler, who is getting hit on by all the fat old ugly males in the world. Basically the exact opposite of the power rush of being a male king in a world where he is unaccountable for his actions and can take his picks among all the most attractive young women in the world. Guess why islamic faiths have polygamy and free divorce?


Which then also leads to another problem - assuming any faith would allow female rulers to have multiple husbands, how would she even know which child is from which father? Things which are rather revolting to think about.


There are plenty of good reason why "male dominated" is the norm, both in the game and in the real world.

[Salem Graves]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Yeah man i really gotta ask, why would you even consider that.

There is literally only one advantage of playing a female ruler, and that's the fact that you always know that your children are of your own blood.

Everything else in this game is really really terrible as female ruler.

Maybe because it's what I want to do and the nice thing about CK3 is you have the freedom to do whatever the feck you want to do. There is no right way to play the game.

[Yen Lo Wang]

The main problem with creating a new Muslim religion that is equal or female dominated is that practically ALL other religions will be hostile to it. The other Islamic faiths would consider it to be heretical while all other faiths would be hostile bc it is a foreign religion.

One would be surrounded by hostile rulers with few, if any, willing to form an alliance with the player making early expansion difficult if not impossible. Add to that the local populace of any territory conquered would be extremely hostile due to the religious malice and uprisings would be frequent until you convert or establish significant control over the territory. If one grows large enough one would them have to deal with Jihads (and perhaps Crusades depending upon location). To make things worse due to changes in the game you are more than likely to experience more than your fair share of assassination attempts.

If you decide to attempt this, IMO your best bet would be to start on the fringe edges of the Islamic world and expand initially into non-Islamic territory and hope they ignore you long enough to build up your strength to be able to start challenging the main Islamic branches head on. After all if everyone is already going to be hostile to you might as well expand into an area where they are less likely to gang up on you. For example starting along Islam's southern edges in Africa and initially expand south into central Africa or along Islam's eastern edges expand into India or central Asia (although you may eventually have to deal with the Mongols if you survive long enough).

[Amsal]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by vortex_13:

There's literally no difference though.

Mega facepalm


Ideally, any male ruler would wait until he is 30-35 years old before having the first baby. There are plenty of reasons for that, for example so the heir isn't 60-70 years old when inheriting the throne (Hi Charles). Also in contrast, a 16 year old ruler getting married would probably have like 10+ kids even before hitting the 30 years mark.

Though for females rulers this isn't possible, at 30+ they have to be glad to get pregnant at all. Leading straight to the next problem:


The risk of death in childbirth. If this happens, there's a random chance that either the baby dies as well, or you have to continue playing as a 0-year old baby which cannot use most diplomatic interactions. And since the recent DLC, is running into the risk of ending up in a permanent regency even after coming of age.


Even if very obvious, it needs to be said - in the most typical and largest faith in CK3, adultery is only criminal for females, not for males. So while a male adulterer gets a "tsk, tsk" from his liege and the pope, a female adultress goes straight to prison. And probably to hell, too.
Historically the reason is pretty obvious, if the male husband cannot trust his children actually being his own bloodline, this undermines the very foundation of society.


Also there is one really massive problem for any faith/culture allowing equal inheritance (and thus rulers). If two rulers get married, their children will inherit titles from both. Which is a massive clusterf* of bordergore.
Example a Duke and a Duchess get married, their common firstborn child inherits both titles, and the others inherit random counties within both realms. This makes the map look like swiss cheese, half their counties are subject to "not rightful liege" 50% tax penalty, and there is no actual method to solve this afterwards.
Besides the fact that you now have a double-duke vassal, which is something you'd normally try to prevent under all circumstances.


And maybe anyone here has ever done an even slightly "evil" playthrough - example that powerful vassal of yours with multiple titles, no wife, and only 1 heir?
How about you get him married to that young wife, then seduce her over and over
until he has 7+ sons. Oh but dayumed, you're a female ruler, and seducing only makes yourself pregnant. Well...?


And the roleplay side - good lord. So now you're playing a female ruler, who is getting hit on by all the fat old ugly males in the world. Basically the exact opposite of the power rush of being a male king in a world where he is unaccountable for his actions and can take his picks among all the most attractive young women in the world. Guess why islamic faiths have polygamy and free divorce?


Which then also leads to another problem - assuming any faith would allow female rulers to have multiple husbands, how would she even know which child is from which father? Things which are rather revolting to think about.


There are plenty of good reason why "male dominated" is the norm, both in the game and in the real world.

This is definitely the most obviously misogynistic comment I have seen on this forum. And, unsurprisingly for a misogynistic comment, it is mostly all poppycock.

[jpcerutti]

Originally posted by Amsal:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Mega facepalm


There are plenty of good reason why "male dominated" is the norm, both in the game and in the real world.

This is definitely the most obviously misogynistic comment I have seen on this forum. And, unsurprisingly for a misogynistic comment, it is mostly all poppycock.

Have you played the game much?

Other than CrUsHeR's "color commentary", which you obviously disagree with, define the "poppycock".

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Originally posted by Amsal:

This is definitely the most obviously misogynistic comment I have seen on this forum. And, unsurprisingly for a misogynistic comment, it is mostly all poppycock.

Have you played the game much?

Other than CrUsHeR's "color commentary", which you obviously disagree with, define the "poppycock".

Besides the idealism of feudalism as some sort of 'pure' system when bastards and faked bloodlines and messy family trees were the norm in history across the world?
Or the fact that the dude forgets that "young attractive wife" also has to be pregnant?
Or if you have a polygamy system with multiple husbands, it doesn't matter which specific one is the husband because you're probably running on maternal inheritance anyway?

[Delta-Kilo]

Straight answer, no. If you become the leader of a cultural tradition, you can modify it to permit equal inheritance. I don't believe you can make it female dominated, outside of a couple African cultures, but you can change the gender laws in this manner.

[jpcerutti]

Originally posted by AmesNFire:

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Have you played the game much?

Other than CrUsHeR's "color commentary", which you obviously disagree with, define the "poppycock".

Besides the idealism of feudalism as some sort of 'pure' system when bastards and faked bloodlines and messy family trees were the norm in history across the world?
Or the fact that the dude forgets that "young attractive wife" also has to be pregnant?
Or if you have a polygamy system with multiple husbands, it doesn't matter which specific one is the husband because you're probably running on maternal inheritance anyway?

You're running with the "color commentary". 'Ideal' or not, feudalism and heavy handed religious dogma - that are both slanted against OP's desire, are par for the period.

The game issues raised are dying in childbirth, age issues staging between generations, issues with neighbor's preference/inheritance/religious law, and trying to make it work without a custom religion (which itself can cause issues depending on where you want to set that religion up). Everyones inheritance stays messy until you can pass laws to streamline that.