Is a Jewish campaign in the Middle East the most difficult?

[ikko]

I've tried it several times and it's almost impossible. I think the only way to do it is to play as a Muslim for 80% of the campaign, and once you weaken the surrounding kingdoms and gain enough of a power base for yourself, only then do you convert your heir into Judaism and form the Kingdom of Israel.

It's super difficult though because every surrounding Muslim kingdom hates you (which seems ahistorical to me, many Muslims were actually quite tolerant of Jews for centuries) and they will holy war you whenever they can.

Anyone have any tips for how to create the Kingdom of Israel with the capital in Jerusalem?

[Sgt. Sarge]

I only play as Muslim kingdoms so I can't help

[TurksTeeTime]

Playing as a vassal with religious protection will allow you to grow uunder anothers umbrella until you are strong enough to wage the wars you need to

[armyissue69]

So...this is how I did it: Start as Count Benjamin Yitzhak of Tumtarakan. (Now I am only going to give you the starting situation). You are Feudal in a bunch of Tribal. Conquer Crete, conquer immediate liege OR the two counties above you if liege hadn't pawned you off by now and assign tribal to a kid, conquer a Bulgarian duchy, hybrid with Bulgarian for Konni, make kingdom of Crete, take Sinai peninsula for your first holy site. Now at this point, you're gonna have to cap a couple more duchies and secede from liege and, possibly, join up with Abbasid or kinda go how you want since it all depends on Egypt and Abbasid size. Rest is up to you on Israel but...this is how I got it going. Once kingdom of Crete you can make holy order and things pick up from there. Good Luck!! Post: IF you have Israel territory AND have a good large liege, this helps against crusades. Typically I have found Khazar liege to be too busy fending off Northmen plus other stuff to defend against crusades. Post2: At this point in your CK life you should know how to have a liege of a diff religion.

[ikko]

Originally posted by Crimson:

Originally posted by ikko:

Anyone have any tips for how to create the Kingdom of Israel with the capital in Jerusalem?

Start as a Catholic with some power in 1066 & wait til the Pope calls a Crusade.
Pick the guy you want to play as your Beneficiary.
Build up a good Army as you'll need the highest Warscore in the Crusade & the Pope will award him King of Jerusalem.
You will get a notification that says "I wonder what kind of Ruler he will be?". Take that choice & you forfeit your original game & begin as King of Jerusalem.

Yes but I'm asking for the best way to create/manage the Kingdom of Israel as a Jewish ruler; not the Kingdom of Jerusalem as a Christian ruler.

[Blue]

create a new jew faith and have islamic /christian syncretism so you can get alliance easily. Once you get jerusalem , it is better not to make it your holding, since crusade going to hit you, unless you are strong/ confident to face them .

[Vicboss]

Can you explain what you're trying to do more? Are you making a custom Jewish ruler with Jerusalem as the starting capital? Is this 867 or 1066? Do you start vassalized or independent? I've done WC with the Jews starting in Ethiopia but not sure what you are trying to do here.

[Vicboss]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3002412326

This is my current, disgustingly OP empire.

[ikko]

Originally posted by Vicboss:

Can you explain what you're trying to do more? Are you making a custom Jewish ruler with Jerusalem as the starting capital? Is this 867 or 1066? Do you start vassalized or independent? I've done WC with the Jews starting in Ethiopia but not sure what you are trying to do here.

I haven't decided yet, All I know is I want to play as a Jewish ruler (preferably Jewish in culture and religion) and base my kingdom in the historical Jewish homeland. So although an Ethiopian campaign is fun, I'd prefer not to start in Abyssinia.

I realize this is very hard because Jewish rulers are likely to get holy war'd by both Christian and Muslim realms. So I assume the only viable way to do this is to start as a Christian/Muslim ruler and only convert to Judaism once you're established in the holy land and powerful enough to fend off the crusades/jihads.

[Vicboss]

Originally posted by ikko:

Originally posted by Vicboss:

Can you explain what you're trying to do more? Are you making a custom Jewish ruler with Jerusalem as the starting capital? Is this 867 or 1066? Do you start vassalized or independent? I've done WC with the Jews starting in Ethiopia but not sure what you are trying to do here.

I haven't decided yet, All I know is I want to play as a Jewish ruler (preferably Jewish in culture and religion) and base my kingdom in the historical Jewish homeland. So although an Ethiopian campaign is fun, I'd prefer not to start in Abyssinia.

I realize this is very hard because Jewish rulers are likely to get holy war'd by both Christian and Muslim realms. ""So I assume the only viable way to do this is to start as a Christian/Muslim ruler and only convert to Judaism once you're established in the holy land and powerful enough to fend off the crusades/jihads.""

If that's the only viable way to do it it's not much different than just starting as the Byzantine Emperor, conquering Jerusalem and then converting. If you want to start as an independent Jewish ruler in the middle of the Abbasid Caliphate, they will Holy War you and that is very historic for the time. You could start as a vassal of the caliph, and remain Jewish if you negotiate within your vassal contract to protect your religious rights but that's not a 100% guarantee they won't try to convert you or that other vassals around you won't attack you. You would then just slowly increase your power within the realm until you can overthrow the caliph. That's the only way I can think of to attempt what you're trying, as I said the late conversion strat takes out 99% of the challenge of doing something like this.

[ikko]

Originally posted by Vicboss:

Originally posted by ikko:

I haven't decided yet, All I know is I want to play as a Jewish ruler (preferably Jewish in culture and religion) and base my kingdom in the historical Jewish homeland. So although an Ethiopian campaign is fun, I'd prefer not to start in Abyssinia.

I realize this is very hard because Jewish rulers are likely to get holy war'd by both Christian and Muslim realms. ""So I assume the only viable way to do this is to start as a Christian/Muslim ruler and only convert to Judaism once you're established in the holy land and powerful enough to fend off the crusades/jihads.""

If that's the only viable way to do it it's not much different than just starting as the Byzantine Emperor, conquering Jerusalem and then converting. If you want to start as an independent Jewish ruler in the middle of the Abbasid Caliphate, they will Holy War you and that is very historic for the time. You could start as a vassal of the caliph, and remain Jewish if you negotiate within your vassal contract to protect your religious rights but that's not a 100% guarantee they won't try to convert you or that other vassals around you won't attack you. You would then just slowly increase your power within the realm until you can overthrow the caliph. That's the only way I can think of to attempt what you're trying, as I said the late conversion strat takes out 99% of the challenge of doing something like this.

So you're saying that starting as a Muslim vassal of the Caliphate and then converting to Judaism once I establish a power base is almost like cheating, because that takes out most of the challenge of playing as a Jewish ruler in the first place

I get that but I don't see how I can start Jewish while being weak and vulnerable because, as you said, the stronger Muslims around me would just destroy me early into the campaign.

Even doing what you suggested doesn't seem viable to me, because a Jewish vassal to the Caliph will still find it impossible to make marriages/alliances with Muslim vassals. Even if I do manage to negotiate a religious freedom contract.

Being Jewish in this game just seems severely gimped to me. I may have to look for mods to make it a bit more viable of a play through.

[dwarfpcfan]

I mean it's historical that jewish communities were usually only allowed to continue at the sufferance of much stronger neighbors and rulers of other faiths. This has been a fact of jewish history since antiquity.

Any playthrough as a jewish ruler will by default necessitate a lot of shenanigans in other to gain the power to actually stand out to the world around.

[Vicboss]

Originally posted by ikko:

So you're saying that starting as a Muslim vassal of the Caliphate and then converting to Judaism once I establish a power base is almost like cheating, because that takes out most of the challenge of playing as a Jewish ruler in the first place

I get that but I don't see how I can start Jewish while being weak and vulnerable because, as you said, the stronger Muslims around me would just destroy me early into the campaign.

Even doing what you suggested doesn't seem viable to me, because a Jewish vassal to the Caliph will still find it impossible to make marriages/alliances with Muslim vassals. Even if I do manage to negotiate a religious freedom contract.

Being Jewish in this game just seems severely gimped to me. I may have to look for mods to make it a bit more viable of a play through.

You don't need marriage alliances to take the lands from fellow vassals, you just need your liege to like you so he doesn't ask for them back. I won't say any Jewish run is easy, took me many tries before I even realized I could ask for religious freedom. The best chance you have for survival is, keep your liege happy, ask for religious freedom, grow your own realm within the realm you exist in, wait for the caliphate to implode (assassinating caliphs helps) and then try to survive the aftermath.

[ShadyLurker]

Originally posted by ikko:

Originally posted by Vicboss:

If that's the only viable way to do it it's not much different than just starting as the Byzantine Emperor, conquering Jerusalem and then converting. If you want to start as an independent Jewish ruler in the middle of the Abbasid Caliphate, they will Holy War you and that is very historic for the time. You could start as a vassal of the caliph, and remain Jewish if you negotiate within your vassal contract to protect your religious rights but that's not a 100% guarantee they won't try to convert you or that other vassals around you won't attack you. You would then just slowly increase your power within the realm until you can overthrow the caliph. That's the only way I can think of to attempt what you're trying, as I said the late conversion strat takes out 99% of the challenge of doing something like this.

So you're saying that starting as a Muslim vassal of the Caliphate and then converting to Judaism once I establish a power base is almost like cheating, because that takes out most of the challenge of playing as a Jewish ruler in the first place

I get that but I don't see how I can start Jewish while being weak and vulnerable because, as you said, the stronger Muslims around me would just destroy me early into the campaign.

Even doing what you suggested doesn't seem viable to me, because a Jewish vassal to the Caliph will still find it impossible to make marriages/alliances with Muslim vassals. Even if I do manage to negotiate a religious freedom contract.

Being Jewish in this game just seems severely gimped to me. I may have to look for mods to make it a bit more viable of a play through.

Sorry bud, this isn't Age of Empires, all the "civilisations" aren't balanced like that lol. Historically, it was a tough time for Jews, that's reflected in the game.

[SDxEair]

Being Jewish is a rough start. However they have a lot of holy sites close together, so once you get going you can become quite powerful.

[SkunkPlaysGames]

I think the Jewish faith is actually really over-powered in CK3 honestly, at least for the 867 start, not sure for 1066 as I almost never play a 1066 start. I have frequent games where Jewish is the predominant faith across Scandinavia all the way to Mongolia.

Playing as the Khazars and then conquering your way to Jerusalem seems the easiest way to do it. I think Nestorian is actually one of the hardest faiths. Either you play as Socotra and face the same issues with the Caliphate or you play as Wuluhai and are thousands of miles away from your holy sites. I'm sure there are harder ones though. There is Zunism and a few other quite difficult starts as well.