Allow raiding for Feudal

[Elriadon]

There was a cultural trait that allowed it at the cost of Prestige for Feudal goverment rulers. Now, it was nerfed and only applies to Dukes and Counts.

How about just making it baseline and cost a significant amount of Prestige and maybe Piety for some religions? And the higher rank your primary title is, the higher the prestige cost.

[ShepherdOfCats]

I favor this. Trinexx if you see it pass it along.

Higher prestige penalties for kings emperors, as opposed to having to go through the ordeal of becoming powerful enough to become the cultural head so you can add this ability, and then making your vassals angry so you can surrender to a claimant faction, so you can be demoted to be able to actually use this cultural trait.

I also see an opportunity for a new casus belli.

I suppose the idea behind the nerf was that feudal kings and emperors were too powerful and raiding was abused, so if someone raids you, you should be allowed to declare war for compensation. That should keep things balanced. You could still be raided by a neighboring liege's vassals but if you want payback you'll have to take it up with their liege.

[Headshotkill]

I support this, infact it's part of an entire warfare overhaul which I proposed not long ago. Here's the thread, scroll down to part 2 of my suggestion to read how I would implement raiding for feudal governments.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1158310/discussions/0/3824162051008720700/

[Coach]

Christians should absolutely be able to raid and pillage. This was such a key factor during the war between France and England. The English literally created specific military units for this, they called them 'Chevauche'.

[dominicawb]

Originally posted by Coach:

Christians should absolutely be able to raid and pillage. This was such a key factor during the war between France and England. The English literally created specific military units for this, they called them 'Chevauche'.

The only way this decision will be reversed is if more historical examples are brought up, so get to digging

[Doc Dreamist]

Originally posted by dominicawb:

Originally posted by Coach:

Christians should absolutely be able to raid and pillage. This was such a key factor during the war between France and England. The English literally created specific military units for this, they called them 'Chevauche'.

The only way this decision will be reversed is if more historical examples are brought up, so get to digging

Didn't solders raid cities on the way to and from holy wars? I honestly can't remember but I feel like I read that somewhere, sometime, when I was less insane.

[ShepherdOfCats]

Originally posted by dominicawb:

The only way this decision will be reversed is if more historical examples are brought up, so get to digging

History aside, the problem is from a gameplay standpoint as it exists now.

The AI will almost never, ever choose practiced pirates, and if the player chooses it, odds are the player will be of a high rank and therefore unable to actually use it (unless you go through the headache of trying to find a way to demote yourself which is just about impossible to do voluntarily). So, the 'nerf solution' they came up with is kinda broken.

[Rex is back, baby!]

Originally posted by dominicawb:

Originally posted by Coach:

Christians should absolutely be able to raid and pillage. This was such a key factor during the war between France and England. The English literally created specific military units for this, they called them 'Chevauche'.

The only way this decision will be reversed is if more historical examples are brought up, so get to digging

A quick google search, and avoiding the vikings, showed me a lot of it happening in the 12-14th century with England and Germany and the Baltic Sea. So effective in their raiding, the economy of Hamburg was put to a halt!

English had the League of the Cinque ports, originally meant to stop piracy, ...but soon turned to piracy.

There was tons of pirates in the Mediterranean, because merchant republics, etc.

Those three cases involved Feudal governments.

Else, besides Vikings and Africans, piracy wasn't in its "Golden Age" yet, we have to go to the 1500s+ for them to really start impacting the world, but CK3 ends in 1453.



Lots of examples 12th century+!
Mostly involving England, because they're the only ones who we preserved excellent records of! Darn Bureaucrats!

Edit:

There was such thing as Pirate Emirates, as early as the 800s, all across Spain and the Mediterranean. Mostly a nuisance to the Romans. Most famously, there was one in Crete.

[ShepherdOfCats]

Can we please keep this discussion towards gameplay mechanics before it turns into a 20 page thread on historical research?

[Headshotkill]

Originally posted by ShepherdOfCats:

Can we please keep this discussion towards gameplay mechanics before it turns into a 20 page thread on historical research?

History of raiding within Europe between feudal kingdoms is very simple, it was a highly effective strategy but frowned upon by the church and seen as uncivilized unless it was directed at different religion nations in holy wars cause God is on our side right?

[Elriadon]

Hence the Prestige and Piety (if raiding same faith realms) cost would be associated with it.

[Rex is back, baby!]

Originally posted by Headshotkill:

Originally posted by ShepherdOfCats:

Can we please keep this discussion towards gameplay mechanics before it turns into a 20 page thread on historical research?

History of raiding within Europe between feudal kingdoms is very simple, it was a highly effective strategy but frowned upon by the church and seen as uncivilized unless it was directed at different religion nations in holy wars cause God is on our side right?

Originally posted by Eltar:

Hence the Prestige and Piety (if raiding same faith realms) cost would be associated with it.

Ye.
Historically, there's examples here.
So, in my opinion, history cannot be used as an example against Feudal Pirate raiding.

[dominicawb]

Originally posted by Rex:

Originally posted by Headshotkill:

History of raiding within Europe between feudal kingdoms is very simple, it was a highly effective strategy but frowned upon by the church and seen as uncivilized unless it was directed at different religion nations in holy wars cause God is on our side right?

Originally posted by Eltar:

Hence the Prestige and Piety (if raiding same faith realms) cost would be associated with it.

Ye.
Historically, there's examples here.
So, in my opinion, history cannot be used as an example against Feudal Pirate raiding.

As for game balance, I already suggested increasing prestige cost per era, but including piety cost for same-faith raiding is also a good idea.

Are there examples of someone using Practiced Pirates to BREAK the game?

[LupisVolk]

Originally posted by Doc Dreamist:

Didn't solders raid cities on the way to and from holy wars? I honestly can't remember but I feel like I read that somewhere, sometime, when I was less insane.

Yes, they did it in christian nations too, lust look at the gathering forces of the 1st crusade and the peasant crusade.

[Elriadon]

So it seems everyone who posted so far is in agreement that this should be added!

[Oubley]

Originally posted by dominicawb:

Originally posted by Coach:

Christians should absolutely be able to raid and pillage. This was such a key factor during the war between France and England. The English literally created specific military units for this, they called them 'Chevauche'.

The only way this decision will be reversed is if more historical examples are brought up, so get to digging

What do you mean more examples? That's like their entire history.