Is this game as good or better than CK2 in its current form?

[Chuddly]

I played CK3 probably a couple years ago now and didn't really enjoy it, and went back to CK2. Most of the DLC has pretty bad reviews, but that's kind of par for the course for PDX dlc I find, except even worse than usual. But anyway, is the game as fleshed out and fun as CK2 or is CK2 still overall better?

[pauloandrade224]

probably better imo. Or the same

[Chuddly]

Originally posted by pauloandrade224:

probably better imo. Or the same

Then it must be a fantastic game because CK2 is pretty great. I'm gonna check it out, thanks!

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by Sergey:

I played CK3 probably a couple years ago now and didn't really enjoy it, and went back to CK2. Most of the DLC has pretty bad reviews, but that's kind of par for the course for PDX dlc I find, except even worse than usual. But anyway, is the game as fleshed out and fun as CK2 or is CK2 still overall better?

I would say CK2 is still superior over CK3.

Because CK3 has too many Bugs and need an Mod to fix it, the Unofficial Patch Mod.
+ CK2 Base Game is free to play.

Another - Point for CK3 is, that the Devs don't care about it, they only care about releasing another DLC, which is bad, because the CK2 DLCs was made with Love and Passion.

This Game needs an Custodian Team and the Devs should take an Example on Victoria 3 and Stellaris Dev Teams.

[drake_hound]

Hard since I hardly play CK2 anymore.. so somehow CK3 gotten me hooked.

If base CK2 compared to CK3, CK3 even without eye candy wins in a lot of factors.
But loses in complexity and challenge. counting eye candy, CK3 wins hands down.

If we count CK2 with all the DLC and CK3 with all the DLC (so far) then CK2 wins hands down, in complexity depth challenge. and CK3 only wins in innovation department.

Since my games are very heavily modded both in CK2 and CK3, the eye candy won it for me.
Is CK3 a worthy successor, it is, but could CK3 still flop, it could...

So difficult to say, guess this year is make or break for CK3, with Roads to Power.
so if Roads to Power flops, you won't hear angry rants on the forums, complaints to fix CK3.
You just see the consumers and user base decline, that is it.

So to the haters :P you gotten what you wanted. a make or break of Crusader Kings 3.

[Wheelhouse]

Depends on what you're after. If it's challenge, then CK2 is still way better. CK3 is incredibly easy in comparison. But 3 is more cohesive in it's overall design, and obviously feels more modern. And since it's not finished, it still has potential, which 2 doesn't.

If Paradox would just make it challenging...

[Abacus]

First you have to consider they learn in different directions.

One focuses more on simulation and uses RPG dynamics. (CK3)

The other have much more objective play, and is essentially a virtual board game. While trying to simulate some feel of characters. (CK2)

By the time CK 3 reaches CK2's development window, It will have more then CK 2 could have even implemented.

CK 3 it already does surpass CK2, code wise. The scripting, It's just far more capable and organized.

Also, buying CK 3 now or a year later will mean more game. It grows at no cost every year. CK 2 was a little late with that and some feature never where properly released from a paywall.

A CK2 mobile port would be a cool thing they could still do. Both great games.

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Simply B:

First you have to consider they learn in different directions.

One focuses more on simulation and uses RPG dynamics. (CK3)

The other have much more objective play, and is essentially a virtual board game. While trying to simulate some feel of characters. (CK2)

By the time CK 3 reaches CK2's development window, It will have more then CK 2 could have even implemented.

CK 3 it already does surpass CK2, code wise. The scripting, It's just far more capable and organized.

Also, buying CK 3 now or a year later will mean more game. It grows at no cost every year. CK 2 was a little late with that and some feature never where properly released from a paywall.

A CK2 mobile port would be a cool thing they could still do. Both great games.

That is all good and well, the huge potential.
But consumers are fickle, they do not care about potential, but what you give them to enjoy.
And so far they were patient enough for 3 years waiting for improvements that matter to what they want.

To reach CK2 development cycle (a full decade), you do need to perform, not just say give us X amount of time, and then evaluate. that doesn't fly. in this Paradox DLC system.
Developers already used the honey moon period. (well partly fault of covid but even then the time for honey moon is over)
IF legends of dead would have performed within expectations and reception.
Paradox didn't had anything to worry about this year. now they have shifted the stress to Roads to Power. that is a shame, when it all could have been avoided.

But as always it is easier to analyse situation when everything/hindsight has already happened.
So this isn't totally fair towards the CK3 team who worked really hard. but sadly this is the current situation at the moment.

[Poolboy]

No. Ck2 is a far better, more full game. If you're into that this will disappoint you. Check this video out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDI74MxXw2c
It's not mine but I agree with everything he says.

[Jerubius]

Crusader Kings 3 has a lot more depth to its mechanics. Each one in a vacuum is a lot better than anything comparable to what CK2 had. On the other hand, CK2 feels like it has the fundamentals down better than CK3 does.

CK2 it feels like there's always a good number of things to be working towards, and a good balance of curveballs it'd throw at you to keep things interesting without making it feel like you got no control. The dlc for it mostly builds on that with more variety and options.

CK3 feels a lot less consistent. As the game has updated further, there's been more and more massive gold sinks thrown into the game, combined with random events that can have negative effects if you don't spend a hefty chunk of gold. Once you start making enough money to actually do stuff, the game becomes pretty trivially easy, but before that point it feels like you just can't do anything. Similarly, my character ended up getting a disease, and high stress because a lot of close family also died to disease, which is where I found out that basically every action you can take to reduce stress, as well as a decent chunk of other actions are blocked by having said disease, meaning I was entirely dependent on random events to give stress reducing options and went several in game years without the disease going away or getting any options to reduce stress. At least its a step up from where the game used to be, where it just felt like there wasn't anything worth doing most of the time regardless.

I think the patch alongside this latest dlc and patch were a step forward. Legitimacy is pretty nice in that adding legitimacy gains to a bunch of actions makes them more worth doing. Like holding court which was previous paying prestige for 3 random events, and a fair amount of which came with more downsides than upsides. Now it also gains you legitimacy, and feels like you're actually accomplishing something instead of just gambling for something interesting. Same with stuff like feasts and hunts, which were competing with other gold sinks and I pretty much stopped doing unless on a character I wanted to focus the related trait for or some other specific purpose. Forming legends also seems to be another solid money sink, though the game is overflowing with money sinks, and epidemics are one of those curveballs the game needed.

I agree with the others here that CK3 really needs a custodian team. The core experience needs some more love. The gold sinks need to be tuned down, the AI could be tuned to be a bit more threatening and just generally rebalancing the options available to you at a given time. The game has the potential to be a lot better than CK2, and has been making baby steps towards realizing that potential, but a team dedicated to rebalancing the base game could drastically speed that process up.

[JCourtney]

I believe the game operates on a somewhat predetermined track. It's like a giant flowchart, born out of Paradox's brainstorming sessions, that dictates gameplay within a virtual environment.

The Flowchart Simulation: Remember when games that resembled "virtual spreadsheets" were criticized, especially in the 4X genre? CK3, in my view, is akin to a flowchart simulation. It's comparable to a child's pop-up book: initially surprising and engaging, but quickly becoming predictable and monotonous upon repeated readings. In CK3, this predictability is manifested in the game directing you to "skip pages," or in gameplay terms, suggesting specific actions over others.

The Impact of New Generations: The current majority of Paradox's staff consists of younger game designers and programmers. I specifically use "programmers" here to highlight that they are constructing a virtual flowchart rather than "developing" imaginative or valuable content. I challenge any Paradox developer to present a unique game design element that exists outside this predetermined flowchart.

Recent Announcements Through the Flowchart Lens: Recent updates and announcements seem to merely add options or branches to the existing flowchart, doing little to enhance the game's overall diversity or depth.

CK2 vs. CK3 - A Personal Comparison: My experience with Crusader Kings II (CK2) was markedly different. CK2 felt more open-ended, with numerous random events and significant variations in main character development that kept each playthrough fresh and unique. The level of randomness and storytelling variation from one main character to the next in CK2 far surpasses the differences among various starting points or dynasties in CK3.

Final Thoughts: The gaming experiences offered by CK2 and CK3 are so distinct that those of us who have deeply engaged with CK2 may find it difficult to fully embrace CK3. Personally, I've traveled as far as I wish to on CK3's tracks and see no allure in revisiting the same journey. I remain skeptical that future updates or content from Paradox could make this journey more appealing or varied.

[drake_hound]

Jcourtney is that your post .. or you stole it off somebody else from Paradox Forums.
Just asking.

[drake_hound]

Don't try to port CK2 to a mobile game... to just earn some money.
Please don't but.... look at the MAC version the CONSOLE version.

If you do not support it properly then don't try. it only harms the reputation and making consumers wary. either do it WELL or don't bother, but we need to show PROFIT to investors, oh come on stocks won't drop to a X level trust me. it will never hit worthless level.
It is only dropping cause failures on trying to enter market HALF BAKED...

So what if the big boys left the stocks, isn't that what Paradox Interactive wanted from going IPO so the little peeps can have some gain from it. and when it goes up, so will the big boys come to earn some cash :P

[,.,]

Great game i'd recommend more people playing it.

Fun mechanics, brilliantly well made imo.

Relatively new player to the game, so i've reverted to the older model of it.

Getting used to it day by day, so i can be more prepared for the recent plague update.

[Tr4cker0]

Originally posted by Wheelhouse:

Depends on what you're after. If it's challenge, then CK2 is still way better. CK3 is incredibly easy in comparison. But 3 is more cohesive in it's overall design, and obviously feels more modern. And since it's not finished, it still has potential, which 2 doesn't.

If Paradox would just make it challenging...

Put you self challenges or switch to a new character when you feel to good in your game and try to beat your previous empire with a fresh noob !

[JCourtney]

Originally posted by Simply B:

Everyone has an opinion, but there are some facts that aren't debatable:

CK 2 is nowhere near as capable as CK 3 is, code wise, script wise, optimization wise with Jomini. That, is not an opinion.

CK 3 will always have more potential. Whether it has been tapped on as much as it could, is up for debate. (I presume Ck 4 would be the same for many years.)

However, ck 3 could port every single aspect of CK 2, and do it better. Have more functionality. be easier to organize and have much more interaction with the rest of the game's mechanics. (A person could make their own replica mod if they wanted to invest that effort.)

We can also minus a year because of the pandemic as it noticeably had an impact on the DLC development.

Unfortunately, we have until roads to power, possible the 2025 DLC map. Before the full migration. They should, if possible extend CK 2's life through a mobile port.

What you smoking? It had potential, but they seemingly couldn't live up to it.

What actual mechanics are there to even interact with outside of the children's storybook pop-ups? It's massively lacking in-game organic storytelling.