Entire family became adventurers then died

[masterhollis]

The wife of my player heir decided to become an adventurer and so my son went with her. Along with his brother and all of my grandsons. They then got themselves involved in a war and were all killed.

The most frustrating thing about it was I never had a say in the entire process. They all just left and there was nothing I could do to get them back.

[jpcerutti]

Don't know your particular details, but you can invite characters back to your court, draw them back with marriages, grant them lands (even just baronies or mayor titles - but this makes them vassals), and you can offer to educate children to draw relatives back to your court if they wander. Giving them 'jobs' within your court (court or advisor positions, forcing knights, etc.) will usually keep them in place if you want to keep them as courtiers.

Sometimes RNG just gives you the raw end of the deal, and if they are out of diplomatic range on that first jump they are just gone - but if you keep your heirs and your progeny busy with jobs, or title them as vassals, you can pretty much avoid that or correct for it if it happens.

[brownacs]

To add to what jpc wrote, did you marry your heir to a landed character or one in line to inherit? I'd think so if they became an adventurer. Probably wouldn't do that for that reason (you can end up losing control of your heir).

[armyissue69]

I do think it's a lil bogus and rules should be changed. I have had similar things happen. There are countries today that still practice the patrinal/matrinal tradition that when you marry, you are moved over to the (in a patrinal example) patrinal dynasty OR in some cases removed from either dynasty entirely.

I think that unless someone is an immediate heir to a title, they should be stuck in the court they're married into...yea sucks. Would also like to see attributes for someone who's happily/favoring the marriage v someone not happy, and perhaps a desired marriage gauge that a man or woman views the potential marriage.

Meh, whatcha gonna do eh?? it IS just a game ;)

[jpcerutti]

Originally posted by armyissue69:

I do think it's a lil bogus and rules should be changed. I have had similar things happen. There are countries today that still practice the patrinal/matrinal tradition that when you marry, you are moved over to the (in a patrinal example) patrinal dynasty OR in some cases removed from either dynasty entirely.

I think that unless someone is an immediate heir to a title, they should be stuck in the court they're married into...yea sucks. Would also like to see attributes for someone who's happily/favoring the marriage v someone not happy, and perhaps a desired marriage gauge that a man or woman views the potential marriage.

Meh, whatcha gonna do eh?? it IS just a game ;)

Do you have any children or grandchildren by any chance? Believe it, or not, but they will do things you do not want them to do, things that are NOT in their or anyone else's best interests, with stubborn regularity. =)

...and inlaws?

[armyissue69]

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Do you have any children or grandchildren by any chance? Believe it, or not, but they will do things you do not want them to do, things that are NOT in their or anyone else's best interests, with stubborn regularity. =)

Right on, actually a grand parent! yea in American, or even Western Social-like countries, we do have that Nuclear Family mentality.

When I was stationed in Korea, I learned how the wives are removed from their family and placed in their own family (removed from both their family and their new family). Which to anyone in a western culture would find odd. It is definitely archaic and allows the children born to be of the paternal family line which ensures that children with separated parents stay in the paternal family. (not intended be disparaging of one tradition v another)

What I was getting at, in Medieval times, wives and children would be stuck at the ruling dynasty as far as the ruler wanting to have the say AND such an arrangement, if forced by the games' designers, would enable us to dictate terms of who can go or not based on OUR own heirs and sort of ground them in place. I do not appreciate when my heirs spouse is somewhere else because they are 4th, 5th or so in line to their parents/grand parents titles.

But yea, I have played enough, lol a quarter of your play, to know how to manage it all quite easily enough.

CK3 is a fairly easy game after getting over the curve. :)

[jpcerutti]

Originally posted by armyissue69:

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Do you have any children or grandchildren by any chance? Believe it, or not, but they will do things you do not want them to do, things that are NOT in their or anyone else's best interests, with stubborn regularity. =)

Right on, actually a grand parent! yea in American, or even Western Social-like countries, we do have that Nuclear Family mentality.

When I was stationed in Korea, I learned how the wives are removed from their family and placed in their own family (removed from both their family and their new family). Which to anyone in a western culture would find odd. It is definitely archaic and allows the children born to be of the paternal family line which ensures that children with separated parents stay in the paternal family. (not intended be disparaging of one tradition v another)

What I was getting at, in Medieval times, wives and children would be stuck at the ruling dynasty as far as the ruler wanting to have the say AND such an arrangement, if forced by the games' designers, would enable us to dictate terms of who can go or not based on OUR own heirs and sort of ground them in place. I do not appreciate when my heirs spouse is somewhere else because they are 4th, 5th or so in line to their parents/grand parents titles.

But yea, I have played enough, lol a quarter of your play, to know how to manage it all quite easily enough.

CK3 is a fairly easy game after getting over the curve. :)

Dynasty I don't think is the issue, or inheritance, and those are set by just straight up marrying patriarch/matriarch, culture, and laws. You can also disinherit or adopt if you want the traditions.

Wandering off, or becoming an adventurer, or marrying somebody you'd rather they didn't happened & happens in royal families too. Historically AND currently. You can want to have a say, you can even have an enforcable say by the rules now, to some extent. You can't control everyone all the time in a sandbox game - and sometimes RNG wants to kill you AND your progeny. Sometimes you are just going to have wayward sons.

Sometimes you just got to let them make their own mistakes. Even when you can plainly see that it IS not the best choice by any stretch of the imagination. Game wise, that's just a shift of focus to a different character or set of characters and inconvenience.

If it *really* bothers OP they can go back to an earlier save, enable edit/debug, and yoink them back with a command from anywhere on the map.

[Puppet Pal Clem]

LMFAO!!!!!! I needed that laugh!

[masterhollis]

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Don't know your particular details, but you can invite characters back to your court, draw them back with marriages, grant them lands (even just baronies or mayor titles - but this makes them vassals), and you can offer to educate children to draw relatives back to your court if they wander. Giving them 'jobs' within your court (court or advisor positions, forcing knights, etc.) will usually keep them in place if you want to keep them as courtiers.

Sometimes RNG just gives you the raw end of the deal, and if they are out of diplomatic range on that first jump they are just gone - but if you keep your heirs and your progeny busy with jobs, or title them as vassals, you can pretty much avoid that or correct for it if it happens.

I couldn't invite my heir back or give him lands. It basically treated him like the spouse of a landed ruler in a different country. I could attempt to invite my grandsons back, but the negative modifier for that was over 150 so I couldn't do that either.

I probably spent about an hour trying different solutions on getting anybody back, but nothing worked. Killing my heirs wife didn't even work. One of the grandsons just took over. I was honestly a bit shocked that with all of the ways the player could interact with the game there was still nothing I could do.

[brownacs]

Originally posted by masterhollis:

I couldn't invite my heir back or give him lands. It basically treated him like the spouse of a landed ruler in a different country. I could attempt to invite my grandsons back, but the negative modifier for that was over 150 so I couldn't do that either.

I probably spent about an hour trying different solutions on getting anybody back, but nothing worked. Killing my heirs wife didn't even work. One of the grandsons just took over. I was honestly a bit shocked that with all of the ways the player could interact with the game there was still nothing I could do.

Guessing it's a bit late now but did you try negotiating settlement with the adventurer spouse? That might work although it's a pretty huge legitimacy hit. A tyranny rebellion surrender might work too if playing as the heir's acceptable and then their positive modifiers might overwhelm that -150 ("might") allowing you to bring the grandkids back.

[masterhollis]

You can't negotiate settlement with an adventurer unless they are in your realm. Maybe If you try that right away that could work, but they were far away. I guess abdicating the throne or something else that would cause your heir to take over would work, but I didn't try that.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by masterhollis:

The wife of my player heir decided to become an adventurer and so my son went with her. Along with his brother and all of my grandsons. They then got themselves involved in a war and were all killed.

The most frustrating thing about it was I never had a say in the entire process. They all just left and there was nothing I could do to get them back.

Debug Mode has an Destroy Title Interaction and since Mods don't block Achievements, you simply can create a Mod, copy the entire Destroy Title Interaction and remove all requirements, who needs Debug Mode and now you can destroy Titles at will, even without Debug Mode, very useful for this Situation.

You should also do this to the add to Court Interaction, to have your Family Members back at your Court.

[jpcerutti]

Originally posted by masterhollis:

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Don't know your particular details, but you can invite characters back to your court, draw them back with marriages, grant them lands (even just baronies or mayor titles - but this makes them vassals), and you can offer to educate children to draw relatives back to your court if they wander. Giving them 'jobs' within your court (court or advisor positions, forcing knights, etc.) will usually keep them in place if you want to keep them as courtiers.

Sometimes RNG just gives you the raw end of the deal, and if they are out of diplomatic range on that first jump they are just gone - but if you keep your heirs and your progeny busy with jobs, or title them as vassals, you can pretty much avoid that or correct for it if it happens.

I couldn't invite my heir back or give him lands. It basically treated him like the spouse of a landed ruler in a different country. I could attempt to invite my grandsons back, but the negative modifier for that was over 150 so I couldn't do that either.

I probably spent about an hour trying different solutions on getting anybody back, but nothing worked. Killing my heirs wife didn't even work. One of the grandsons just took over. I was honestly a bit shocked that with all of the ways the player could interact with the game there was still nothing I could do.

A direct invite is probably the weakest way to add anyone to your court. For the grandkids, offering to educate them and then betrothing them to courtiers would probably be the best way to get and then keep them, You can work up an opinion level with their liege to a possible +100 (If I *really* need a quick opinion boost giving them a sweet artifact and then eventually stealing it back usually works) and get bonuses if they're intimidated/fear you (dread), the difference in your ranks, and the little bonuses for the guardian's skills that are over 10. If you have or generate a hook you pretty much won't need the bonuses and just not a hugely negative opinion.

I did a little experimenting and can pretty much draw any adventurers kids to my court for an education/guardianship that way.

Unmarried adults can pretty much be drawn back with a marriage - except for the leader of the adventurers and their spouse. You will probably have to die to get that son back when they inherit. You might have to strategically murder to create that unmarriage, but a little experimenting makes that appear to be a viable option unless you have the impossibly large different faith malus.

Grant titles should of DEFINITELY worked on the grandkids. Will do some experimenting later today and feel out the mechanics for adult relatives in your scenario and add to this post.
=============================
ADD: Created an adventurer niece, married a son to her, popped out some kids, added another son to the camp, his wife, and a kid. Added a third & fourth unmarried sons, one over 16, one under. All with the 'miracle' of edit/debug.

First for the sons. I can bring them all back BUT the one married to the adventurer with a simple invite. He is your child (+160) and you are his house head (+50) and the (+50) lodging bonus (if you have the Court DLC I suppose) make that readily happen. The married 2nd son will bring his wife and child in one go. The heir (married to the adventurer) WILL return and rule if you die or abdicate - even if married maternally.

For the unmarried son they will accept a marriage offer as long as they are not marrying too far down, or you can come up with enough bonuses to counteract that. A strong hook on the niece/adventurer will force a marriage down. They will relocate to your court (or the court of whoever they marry) even if they have a camp position.

For the adventurer's (and my son's) children I can invite any of them back with a strong hook, I can simply invite any of the children who aren't the adventurers, & I can offer to educate any of the children and they will accept.

Titles were a surprise, trying to title your way out of it won't work.

So, in short, you should be able to add *most* of your family back by simple invitation, you can add all the children back by offers of guardianship, and your heir, married to the adventurer, will return and rule upon your death. A debug/edit command WILL immediately bring your heir back to your court, but I have no idea if they will stick around.

[masterhollis]

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Originally posted by masterhollis:

I couldn't invite my heir back or give him lands. It basically treated him like the spouse of a landed ruler in a different country. I could attempt to invite my grandsons back, but the negative modifier for that was over 150 so I couldn't do that either.

I probably spent about an hour trying different solutions on getting anybody back, but nothing worked. Killing my heirs wife didn't even work. One of the grandsons just took over. I was honestly a bit shocked that with all of the ways the player could interact with the game there was still nothing I could do.

A direct invite is probably the weakest way to add anyone to your court. For the grandkids, offering to educate them and then betrothing them to courtiers would probably be the best way to get and then keep them, You can work up an opinion level with their liege to a possible +100 (If I *really* need a quick opinion boost giving them a sweet artifact and then eventually stealing it back usually works) and get bonuses if they're intimidated/fear you (dread), the difference in your ranks, and the little bonuses for the guardian's skills that are over 10. If you have or generate a hook you pretty much won't need the bonuses and just not a hugely negative opinion.

I did a little experimenting and can pretty much draw any adventurers kids to my court for an education/guardianship that way.

Unmarried adults can pretty much be drawn back with a marriage - except for the leader of the adventurers and their spouse. You will probably have to die to get that son back when they inherit. You might have to strategically murder to create that unmarriage, but a little experimenting makes that appear to be a viable option unless you have the impossibly large different faith malus.

Grant titles should of DEFINITELY worked on the grandkids. Will do some experimenting later today and feel out the mechanics for adult relatives in your scenario and add to this post.
=============================
ADD: Created an adventurer niece, married a son to her, popped out some kids, added another son to the camp, his wife, and a kid. Added a third & fourth unmarried sons, one over 16, one under. All with the 'miracle' of edit/debug.

First for the sons. I can bring them all back BUT the one married to the adventurer with a simple invite. He is your child (+160) and you are his house head (+50) and the (+50) lodging bonus (if you have the Court DLC I suppose) make that readily happen. The married 2nd son will bring his wife and child in one go. The heir (married to the adventurer) WILL return and rule if you die or abdicate - even if married maternally.

For the unmarried son they will accept a marriage offer as long as they are not marrying too far down, or you can come up with enough bonuses to counteract that. A strong hook on the niece/adventurer will force a marriage down. They will relocate to your court (or the court of whoever they marry) even if they have a camp position.

For the adventurer's (and my son's) children I can invite any of them back with a strong hook, I can simply invite any of the children who aren't the adventurers, & I can offer to educate any of the children and they will accept.

Titles were a surprise, trying to title your way out of it won't work.

So, in short, you should be able to add *most* of your family back by simple invitation, you can add all the children back by offers of guardianship, and your heir, married to the adventurer, will return and rule upon your death. A debug/edit command WILL immediately bring your heir back to your court, but I have no idea if they will stick around.

I went back to an old save just to double check if there was anything I could have done. There are three characters who have the possibility to be my heir. My son and my two grandsons. All of them were adults. The only way to get the son back is to abdicate or die and let him take over.

It is either impossible or extremely difficult to invite the grandsons back. They have huge negative modifiers such as Lieges child -160, opinion of the mother -50, lieges friend -75, and others. Even with paying for travel expenses and luxurious lodging I was still looking at over -100.

Trying to marry my grandson to get him back was also unsuccessful. At first there was no one that showed up on the potential marriage list, but I fixed that by searching for courtiers and inviting them. I managed to marry her to my grandson but it didn't bring him back. She just left to join him. I thought about maybe granting the potential wife land in my realm before marrying first, but my faith did not allow that. The second grandson was already married and his wife was at my court. I guess he just decided to leave her for the life of an adventurer.

It is easy to get them back using debug mode to force them into your court or debug a strong hook on them, so I suppose I should have just done that in the first place. It just kind of bugged me that I couldn't do it legitimately.

[jpcerutti]

Originally posted by masterhollis:

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

A direct invite is probably the weakest way to add anyone to your court. For the grandkids, offering to educate them and then betrothing them to courtiers would probably be the best way to get and then keep them, You can work up an opinion level with their liege to a possible +100 (If I *really* need a quick opinion boost giving them a sweet artifact and then eventually stealing it back usually works) and get bonuses if they're intimidated/fear you (dread), the difference in your ranks, and the little bonuses for the guardian's skills that are over 10. If you have or generate a hook you pretty much won't need the bonuses and just not a hugely negative opinion.

I did a little experimenting and can pretty much draw any adventurers kids to my court for an education/guardianship that way.

Unmarried adults can pretty much be drawn back with a marriage - except for the leader of the adventurers and their spouse. You will probably have to die to get that son back when they inherit. You might have to strategically murder to create that unmarriage, but a little experimenting makes that appear to be a viable option unless you have the impossibly large different faith malus.

Grant titles should of DEFINITELY worked on the grandkids. Will do some experimenting later today and feel out the mechanics for adult relatives in your scenario and add to this post.
=============================
ADD: Created an adventurer niece, married a son to her, popped out some kids, added another son to the camp, his wife, and a kid. Added a third & fourth unmarried sons, one over 16, one under. All with the 'miracle' of edit/debug.

First for the sons. I can bring them all back BUT the one married to the adventurer with a simple invite. He is your child (+160) and you are his house head (+50) and the (+50) lodging bonus (if you have the Court DLC I suppose) make that readily happen. The married 2nd son will bring his wife and child in one go. The heir (married to the adventurer) WILL return and rule if you die or abdicate - even if married maternally.

For the unmarried son they will accept a marriage offer as long as they are not marrying too far down, or you can come up with enough bonuses to counteract that. A strong hook on the niece/adventurer will force a marriage down. They will relocate to your court (or the court of whoever they marry) even if they have a camp position.

For the adventurer's (and my son's) children I can invite any of them back with a strong hook, I can simply invite any of the children who aren't the adventurers, & I can offer to educate any of the children and they will accept.

Titles were a surprise, trying to title your way out of it won't work.

So, in short, you should be able to add *most* of your family back by simple invitation, you can add all the children back by offers of guardianship, and your heir, married to the adventurer, will return and rule upon your death. A debug/edit command WILL immediately bring your heir back to your court, but I have no idea if they will stick around.

I went back to an old save just to double check if there was anything I could have done. There are three characters who have the possibility to be my heir. My son and my two grandsons. All of them were adults. The only way to get the son back is to abdicate or die and let him take over.

It is either impossible or extremely difficult to invite the grandsons back. They have huge negative modifiers such as Lieges child -160, opinion of the mother -50, lieges friend -75, and others. Even with paying for travel expenses and luxurious lodging I was still looking at over -100.

Trying to marry my grandson to get him back was also unsuccessful. At first there was no one that showed up on the potential marriage list, but I fixed that by searching for courtiers and inviting them. I managed to marry her to my grandson but it didn't bring him back. She just left to join him. I thought about maybe granting the potential wife land in my realm before marrying first, but my faith did not allow that. The second grandson was already married and his wife was at my court. I guess he just decided to leave her for the life of an adventurer.

It is easy to get them back using debug mode to force them into your court or debug a strong hook on them, so I suppose I should have just done that in the first place. It just kind of bugged me that I couldn't do it legitimately.

Grandsons of your primary heir should be brought back by offering guardianship and then betrothing them to a courtier matrilineally before they become 16. I believe they will make one long round trip between courts when they finish their education but should end up in your court - this game has serious pathing issues. Grandsons of your second (or more) sons that 'just went along because' or your 2nd son (or more), that also 'just went along because', can just be invited, as can any son who will become your heir if the First son *and* his children die that is not married to an adventurer or titled character that holds land. You *can* just invite them (the primary heir's children) *if* you have a hook on the adventuring momma.

You have to marry matralinially to pull a male character to your court. Paternally they go to the dude's court (or camp in this situation). If you are marrying possible heirs out of your dynasty you have to check the box because the game doesn't think you want to do that on 'accident'.

Invite 'the second son that went along with is brother' and he will bring back his whole immediate family. If that's just him you got one son back. If he has a wife and kids you get them all back as a package. Any sons in the adventurer's court that are *not* married to the adventurer can be invited and will bring any family with them when they return.

Guardianship the heir's kids and then 'nail their little feet to the floor' with a matrilinial betrothal. You can later do away with that first wife and marry them however you want when they become permanent courtiers and not 'guests'.

Inviting does not work for adventurers, their spouses... but will work for their children *if* you have, and use, a strong hook.

[masterhollis]

Originally posted by jpcerutti:

Originally posted by masterhollis:

I went back to an old save just to double check if there was anything I could have done. There are three characters who have the possibility to be my heir. My son and my two grandsons. All of them were adults. The only way to get the son back is to abdicate or die and let him take over.

It is either impossible or extremely difficult to invite the grandsons back. They have huge negative modifiers such as Lieges child -160, opinion of the mother -50, lieges friend -75, and others. Even with paying for travel expenses and luxurious lodging I was still looking at over -100.

Trying to marry my grandson to get him back was also unsuccessful. At first there was no one that showed up on the potential marriage list, but I fixed that by searching for courtiers and inviting them. I managed to marry her to my grandson but it didn't bring him back. She just left to join him. I thought about maybe granting the potential wife land in my realm before marrying first, but my faith did not allow that. The second grandson was already married and his wife was at my court. I guess he just decided to leave her for the life of an adventurer.

It is easy to get them back using debug mode to force them into your court or debug a strong hook on them, so I suppose I should have just done that in the first place. It just kind of bugged me that I couldn't do it legitimately.

Grandsons of your primary heir should be brought back by offering guardianship and then betrothing them to a courtier matrilineally before they become 16. I believe they will make one long round trip between courts when they finish their education but should end up in your court - this game has serious pathing issues. Grandsons of your second (or more) sons that 'just went along because' or your 2nd son (or more), that also 'just went along because', can just be invited, as can any son who will become your heir if the First son *and* his children die that is not married to an adventurer or titled character that holds land. You *can* just invite them (the primary heir's children) *if* you have a hook on the adventuring momma.

You have to marry matralinially to pull a male character to your court. Paternally they go to the dude's court (or camp in this situation). If you are marrying possible heirs out of your dynasty you have to check the box because the game doesn't think you want to do that on 'accident'.

Invite 'the second son that went along with is brother' and he will bring back his whole immediate family. If that's just him you got one son back. If he has a wife and kids you get them all back as a package. Any sons in the adventurer's court that are *not* married to the adventurer can be invited and will bring any family with them when they return.

Guardianship the heir's kids and then 'nail their little feet to the floor' with a matrilinial betrothal. You can later do away with that first wife and marry them however you want when they become permanent courtiers and not 'guests'.

Inviting does not work for adventurers, their spouses... but will work for their children *if* you have, and use, a strong hook.

The grandsons were grown adults. I couldn't become their guardian. Your correct about the matrilineal marriage, But it seems pretty silly to have to marry your grandson into his wives family and then immediately kill her just to bring him back to your court.

In my second round of testing I was able to invite the grandsons back even with a weak hook. So I think if another person is involved in the same situation the easiest thing to do that doesn't involve debug mode would probably be to just fabricate a weak hook on the grandsons.