Catholic conversion of Scandinavia.

[Bjørn]

@Developers :

Please Please stop it! it is unrealistic that the Pagans would convert when they have stopped 3 crusades and their king is a Zealous Asatrú...

Especially when 1/3 of France, ½ of Germany and ALL of the British Isles have converted to Asatrú.
Muslims hold Iberia and the Byzantine Empire has almost taken all of Italy...

I think the catholics have more pressing matters than converting some asatrú pagans in Denmark and Norway...

You have to put in something that prevents this relentless conversion of the pagans, when OBVIOUSLY the catholic part of the world is under so much pressure elsewhere and 3 previous crusades have failed... yes 3... the Asatrú won 3 crusades for England while expanding from Brittany to Odessa...

But hey, lets all just turn Catholic all of a sudden.

[kalanyr]

Yeah, the push towards Reformed religions makes sense if things are proceeding roughly according to history but there should probably be checks for if things are going very differently than expected (like Unreformed Religions are major powers or the religion scripted to do the converting is much weaker than expected)

One possibility would be to sub in the AI making active efforts to reform unexpectedly powerful Pagan faiths rather than flipping them to existing reformed faiths.

[Agony_Aunt]

Play as Pagan. Spread the Pagan love around the world!

[Kimlin]

Theoretically there could still be a major faction within the Catholic Church still pushing to convert Scandinavia. Even if the rest of the Catholic world is falling apart.

If the Scandinavian rulers seem to be extremely powerful it would make even more sense that the Church would do their best or convert them and gain a powerful ally or allies.

[dwarfpcfan]

I've just finished a playthrough as the Kingdom of Mann that formed the Empire of Britannia and Sweden christianized despite my by then hold all of the British Iles except for tiny holdouts in Alba and kent along with agressive expansion into Scandinavia proper. It was completely ridiculous. By then I'd stopped 2 crusades as an unreformed asatru, held 2 holy sites and Asatru was dominant in the region, yet Sweden still converted to no benefit to them whatsoever

In fact it actually weakened them because the king converted yet roughly 51% of his vassals were still asatru and very angry at him, allowing me to usurp the kingdom to then reform the faith.

The game definitely needs a religion dlc and one of the major event chains should definitely deal with christianization and islamization of pagan neighbors. And this dlc definitely should provide incentives to rulers who christianize and spread the faith to pagan realms.

As of now the only two real benefits is faster feudalization and the ability to ask the pope for money, which in my opinion do not equal the long term benefits of feudalization with reforming your faith and the utter insanity of reformed pagan faith holy orders which basically gives you a free army that constantly grows with 0 cost to maintain and manage.

[Kimlin]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

I've just finished a playthrough as the Kingdom of Mann that formed the Empire of Britannia and Sweden christianized despite my by then hold all of the British Iles except for tiny holdouts in Alba and kent along with agressive expansion into Scandinavia proper. It was completely ridiculous. By then I'd stopped 2 crusades as an unreformed asatru, held 2 holy sites and Asatru was dominant in the region, yet Sweden still converted to no benefit to them whatsoever

In fact it actually weakened them because the king converted yet roughly 51% of his vassals were still asatru and very angry at him, allowing me to usurp the kingdom to then reform the faith.

The game definitely needs a religion dlc and one of the major event chains should definitely deal with christianization and islamization of pagan neighbors. And this dlc definitely should provide incentives to rulers who christianize and spread the faith to pagan realms.

As of now the only two real benefits is faster feudalization and the ability to ask the pope for money, which in my opinion do not equal the long term benefits of feudalization with reforming your faith and the utter insanity of reformed pagan faith holy orders which basically gives you a free army that constantly grows with 0 cost to maintain and manage.

It’s been at least a year since I’ve played as Norse. Is this conversion mechanic something new? I don’t recall it ever happening.

[dwarfpcfan]

Originally posted by Kimlin:

It’s been at least a year since I’ve played as Norse. Is this conversion mechanic something new? I don’t recall it ever happening.

I honestly do not know. But Norse is my 2nd favorite culture to play and I've had 3 playthroughs in a row where Sweden flipped to catholicism which then cause Norway and Danemark to start christianizing.

When that happened you had 1-3 kings who were catholic tribal before flipping to feudal so I don't know if the updates changed something to promote feudalization of the region.

But to my surprise in one of those 3 playthroughs I also saw an A.I Lithuania reform Vidilism which was a complete and utter shock to me.

[Kimlin]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

Originally posted by Kimlin:

It’s been at least a year since I’ve played as Norse. Is this conversion mechanic something new? I don’t recall it ever happening.

I honestly do not know. But Norse is my 2nd favorite culture to play and I've had 3 playthroughs in a row where Sweden flipped to catholicism which then cause Norway and Danemark to start christianizing.

When that happened you had 1-3 kings who were catholic tribal before flipping to feudal so I don't know if the updates changed something to promote feudalization of the region.

But to my surprise in one of those 3 playthroughs I also saw an A.I Lithuania reform Vidilism which was a complete and utter shock to me.

Norse is my favorite culture to play too. I’ve just been playing CK2 more recently.

It does sound like they may have made a change to influence religious changes to push for feudalism.

[Bjørn]

Originally posted by Agony_Aunt:

Play as Pagan. Spread the Pagan love around the world!

That is what I have been trying, and have failed over and over, since the catholic conversion of Scandinavia is scripted.

No matter how fast, even with faster conversion, console commands and massive use of those... you stand absolutely NO chance of winning...

[Bjørn]

Originally posted by Kimlin:

Theoretically there could still be a major faction within the Catholic Church still pushing to convert Scandinavia. Even if the rest of the Catholic world is falling apart.

If the Scandinavian rulers seem to be extremely powerful it would make even more sense that the Church would do their best or convert them and gain a powerful ally or allies.

The issue is they have to travel through Pagan Switzerland, Pagan Germany and ignore previously Catholic nations to do so...
There is even a Christian Holy Site in Britain, and they don't care it is held by Pagans.

[Bjørn]

Originally posted by kalanyr:

Yeah, the push towards Reformed religions makes sense

But I reformed Paganism.... So no it doesn't make sense they still convert.