Frankish culture group: A debate

[Estaline]

In my understanding, makes no sense a "Frankish Culture Group", since the Franks where only a germanic elite caste that dominated the region, and that implies much less than imagined in the overall culture of the region.

My proposal would be rename "Frankish Culture Group" to "French" and move old Frankish culture to the "Central Germanic Group".

[garthurbrown]

The problem is that many groups overlap. Just like with the Lombards being considered Latin instead of Central Germanic. They really should be both.

[myperfectvictory]

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

The problem is that many groups overlap. Just like with the Lombards being considered Latin instead of Central Germanic. They really should be both.

Wrong, the lombards originated from germanic territory.

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

The problem is that many groups overlap. Just like with the Lombards being considered Latin instead of Central Germanic. They really should be both.

Wrong, the lombards originated from germanic territory.

Your reading comprehension is stunning.

[myperfectvictory]

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Wrong, the lombards originated from germanic territory.

Your reading comprehension is stunning.

You're not going to refute my statement? That's all you're going to say? Just going to attack my intellect? Your social skills are questionable

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Your reading comprehension is stunning.

You're not going to refute my statement? That's all you're going to say? Just going to attack my intellect? Your social skills are questionable

Allow me to reiterate: In the game, the Lombards are in the Latin culture group.

[myperfectvictory]

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Originally posted by Mr. A:

You're not going to refute my statement? That's all you're going to say? Just going to attack my intellect? Your social skills are questionable

Allow me to reiterate: In the game, the Lombards are in the Latin culture group.

And that is historically false. What was it again that I stated in my previous post? They ORIGINATED from germanic territory.

[Space Wizard]

well if we are talking about cultures within the wrong culture groups... shouldn't the visigoths be in a Germanic group? (yes the franks should be moved)

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Allow me to reiterate: In the game, the Lombards are in the Latin culture group.

And that is historically false. What was it again that I stated in my previous post? They ORIGINATED from germanic territory.

You are attempting to correct me (yet again), but I haven't made the mistake you want to correct. Just stop.

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by Soundwave:

well if we are talking about cultures within the wrong culture groups... shouldn't the visigoths be in a Germanic group? (yes the franks should be moved)

The problem is where groups diverge and converge. In 410 the Visigoths were an East Germanic group (a group that is extinct before the earliest start date), but by the 9th Century they had been Latinized to a significant extent. I think this is why the Franks, Visigoths, and Lombards are not categorized as Germanic any longer.

[Illusion17]

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Wrong, the lombards originated from germanic territory.

Your reading comprehension is stunning.

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Your reading comprehension is stunning.

You're not going to refute my statement? That's all you're going to say? Just going to attack my intellect? Your social skills are questionable

Dude... he said that the Lombards are in the Latin group, but should technically be both Latin and Germanic. Latin because they control de jure Italian territory and have adopted some aspects of their culture, and Germanic because as you said, they're Germanic in origin. It's quite bold of you to call their social skills questionable, when you misread his comment, acted like a smart arse, then doubled down and threw a tantrum when they pointed out you misread their post. Be civil dude, going wrong, blah blah blah, is incredibly condescending.

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by illusion goddian:

Dude... he said that the Lombards are in the Latin group, but should technically be both Latin and Germanic. Latin because they control de jure Italian territory and have adopted some aspects of their culture, and Germanic because as you said, they're Germanic in origin. It's quite bold of you to call their social skills questionable, when you misread his comment, acted like a smart arse, then doubled down and threw a tantrum when they pointed out you misread their post. Be civil dude, going wrong, blah blah blah, is incredibly condescending.

Mr. A has been giving grief on more than one thread. Maybe just a troll? Who knows.

[myperfectvictory]

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Originally posted by illusion goddian:

Dude... he said that the Lombards are in the Latin group, but should technically be both Latin and Germanic. Latin because they control de jure Italian territory and have adopted some aspects of their culture, and Germanic because as you said, they're Germanic in origin. It's quite bold of you to call their social skills questionable, when you misread his comment, acted like a smart arse, then doubled down and threw a tantrum when they pointed out you misread their post. Be civil dude, going wrong, blah blah blah, is incredibly condescending.

Mr. A has been giving grief on more than one thread. Maybe just a troll? Who knows.

Since you are now including irrelevant and trivial information about our encounters in other threads, you were told, not just by me, but two others that you were wrong about catholic vassals able to participate in crusades with a non-catholic liege. You claim it's not in the wiki, however you were just proven wrong in a recent thread you have just created about how you were a duke who subjucated a kingdom and then you became independent and were confused aobut it. Well why didn't you consult the wiki about that since you like to bring up the wiki so much?

I tried to be cordial with you, but now you are just acting irrational and childish in your responses to me, even though were clearly wrong. Just like this argument about lombards, again, it is historically wrong that they are listed as latin when they really should be central germanic.

[Space Wizard]

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Mr. A has been giving grief on more than one thread. Maybe just a troll? Who knows.

Since you are now including irrelevant and trivial information about our encounters in other threads, you were told, not just by me, but two others that you were wrong about catholic vassals able to participate in crusades with a non-catholic liege. You claim it's not in the wiki, however you were just proven wrong in a recent thread you have just created about how you were a duke who subjucated a kingdom and then you became independent and were confused aobut it. Well why didn't you consult the wiki about that since you like to bring up the wiki so much?

I tried to be cordial with you, but now you are just acting irrational and childish in your responses to me, even though were clearly wrong. Just like this argument about lombards, again, it is historically wrong that they are listed as latin when they really should be central germanic.

dude... he didn't say the Lombards were Latin in this discussion, he just says the game considers them so

[Estaline]

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

The problem is that many groups overlap. Just like with the Lombards being considered Latin instead of Central Germanic. They really should be both.

I agree about the Lombards being both Germanic and Latin, but that's not exactly the case, let me further explain.

I have actually two problems, first be the Lombard being a culture at all. In CK2, all of Italy was Lombard, and that was actually very idiotic, since Lombards where never a majority among general population and where basically absorbed in the vulgar Latin speakers. Even though, in CK3 the Lombard culture is part of "Latin Culture Group", which is fine, considering they've been very much assimilated by that time.

The other question is the Frankish culture being itself head of a culture group. Frankish people, just like the Lombards, never were a majority in today's France and were absorbed too, leaving only language contributions, so it doesn't make any sense they being Latin, much less head of a culture group which is entirely composed of Latin speaking cultures. Franks where Germanic people. Even the French elite at the time considered themselves Germanic, while the common folks were "Latins".

My proposed solution to that case would be inserting major Latin cultures, and then they would swap overtime. Since CK3 doesn't have a very early start like CK2, it doesn't really matter much, but if its implemented, it would be better if France was divided in two Latin cultures, let's say "north Gallic" and "south Gallic", all the rulers being Frankish (Germanic). With the time, the culture would swap to French/Occitan, along with the rulers, symbolizing the Frankish elite were absorbed, while leaving a legacy in the Latin base-culture. This could happen in Italy, Germany, Spain etc. Would be a nice flavour.
But then again, French being "Frankish" is just absurd.

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by Mr. A:

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Mr. A has been giving grief on more than one thread. Maybe just a troll? Who knows.

Since you are now including irrelevant and trivial information about our encounters in other threads, you were told, not just by me, but two others that you were wrong about catholic vassals able to participate in crusades with a non-catholic liege. You claim it's not in the wiki, however you were just proven wrong in a recent thread you have just created about how you were a duke who subjucated a kingdom and then you became independent and were confused aobut it. Well why didn't you consult the wiki about that since you like to bring up the wiki so much?

I tried to be cordial with you, but now you are just acting irrational and childish in your responses to me, even though were clearly wrong. Just like this argument about lombards, again, it is historically wrong that they are listed as latin when they really should be central germanic.

You must be a hit at parties.