I dont get the religion system here

[GumShuro]

When my vassal cheats on his wife i cant arrest him? I am playing as Ashaira and in Islam is cheating on his wife/husband a big crime and major sin.
Paradox should make it more realistic

[[MwaH] NeoStarr]

IIRC Ash'arism shuns both male and female adultery but it's not criminal. I dunno if it's realistic for the time period but it should be listed as such in the doctrines.

[GumShuro]

Originally posted by MwaH NeoStarr:

IIRC Ash'arism shuns both male and female adultery but it's not criminal. I dunno if it's realistic for the time period but it should be listed as such in the doctrines.

Yes i now but in reallife it was a reason to execute someone

[Zednaught]

Originally posted by Haytham:

Originally posted by MwaH NeoStarr:

IIRC Ash'arism shuns both male and female adultery but it's not criminal. I dunno if it's realistic for the time period but it should be listed as such in the doctrines.

Yes i now but in reallife it was a reason to execute someone

Was it though? Remember, we're dealing with the nobility, and the rules applied somewhat differently. People had affairs all the time, but what evidence is there, really, of nobles being executed for affairs in anything like a systematic way.

[nosquimoriturisumus]

Originally posted by Zednaught:

Originally posted by Haytham:

Yes i now but in reallife it was a reason to execute someone

Was it though? Remember, we're dealing with the nobility, and the rules applied somewhat differently. People had affairs all the time, but what evidence is there, really, of nobles being executed for affairs in anything like a systematic way.

There is little evidence of anybody actually being executed for adultery in the period. From Wikipedia:

These requirements made zina virtually impossible to prove in practice. Hence, there are very few recorded examples of stoning for zina being legally carried out. In the 623-year history of the Ottoman Empire, the best-documented and most well-known pre-modern Islamic legal system, there is only one recorded example of the stoning punishment being applied for zina, when a Muslim woman and her Jewish lover were convicted of zina in 1680 and sentenced to death, the woman by stoning and the man by beheading. This was a miscarriage of justice according to the standards of Islamic law: adequate evidence was not produced, and the correct penalty for non-Muslims was 100 lashes rather than death.

[The Former]

Adultery was never, to my knowledge, punishable by execution in any secular society. Yes, Abrahamic religions trace back to the old Hebrew law which advocated for the execution of adulterers. However this was specifically a provision to purge evil from the camp of Israel, and was not taught by Jesus, whom Christendom followed, nor was it actually historically practiced by any Abrahamic society during the Middle Ages that I'm aware of.

[GumShuro]

Originally posted by Lockfågel, the Paradox Knight:

Adultery was never, to my knowledge, punishable by execution in any secular society. Yes, Abrahamic religions trace back to the old Hebrew law which advocated for the execution of adulterers. However this was specifically a provision to purge evil from the camp of Israel, and was not taught by Jesus, whom Christendom followed, nor was it actually historically practiced by any Abrahamic society during the Middle Ages that I'm aware of.

islam isnt secular and it has punishment for adultry

[brownacs]

Originally posted by nosquimoriturisumus:

There is little evidence of anybody actually being executed for adultery in the period. From Wikipedia:

These requirements made zina virtually impossible to prove in practice. Hence, there are very few recorded examples of stoning for zina being legally carried out. In the 623-year history of the Ottoman Empire, the best-documented and most well-known pre-modern Islamic legal system, there is only one recorded example of the stoning punishment being applied for zina, when a Muslim woman and her Jewish lover were convicted of zina in 1680 and sentenced to death, the woman by stoning and the man by beheading. This was a miscarriage of justice according to the standards of Islamic law: adequate evidence was not produced, and the correct penalty for non-Muslims was 100 lashes rather than death.

Just to add to this a bit. Read into Zina. The legal process Sharia requires to prove it is pretty much impossible. This is the traditional Sunni process:
1) A Muslim confesses to zina four separate times. However, if the confessor takes back his/her words before the punishment is enforced or during the punishment, he/she will be released and set free. The confessor is in fact encouraged to take back their confession. (EDIT: unsurprisingly volunteering to be stoned to death is rare)
OR
1) Four free adult male Muslim witnesses of proven integrity. They must testify that they observed the couple engaged in unlawful sexual intercourse without any doubt or ambiguity.
2) Unlike witnesses in most other circumstances, they are neither legally nor morally obliged to testify, and in fact legal texts state that it is morally better if they don't.
3) If any of the witnesses take back their testimony before the actual punishment is enforced, then the punishment will be abandoned, and the witnesses will be punished for the crime of false accusation.
4) The witnesses must give their testimony at the earliest opportunity.
5) If the offence is punished by stoning, the witnesses must throw the stones.
1 combined with 3 made it effectively impossible (never mind throwing in a little 4). Anyone who accuses someone of adultery and can't produce 4 free adult male Muslim witnesses (or 3 if they themselves qualify) will themselves be lashed for bearing false witness.

[ShepherdOfCats]

I think at some point during development they got bored with assigning tenets to religions and just started going with whatever.

That's the only reason I can think of that the Han Taoists start with gender equality, and aren't even allowed concubines. Like, 9th century China without concubines is a pretty big miss from the devs.

[brownacs]

Originally posted by ShepherdOfCats:

I think at some point during development they got bored with assigning tenets to religions and just started going with whatever.

That's the only reason I can think of that the Han Taoists start with gender equality, and aren't even allowed concubines. Like, 9th century China without concubines is a pretty big miss from the devs.

Sunni Islam doesn't exist when the game starts (867). There also isn't really a Catholic Church or an Orthodox Church. That officially happens in 1054. All missed by the devs.
EDIT: I'd also point out that Chinese religion just doesn't work anything like the systems in this game. It's syncretic, by and large. Chinese people (massively generalising) aren't Buddhists or Taoists or Confucianists or Native Chinese polytheists or whatever. They're all of them at the same time. It can get pretty confusing. I don't think Taoism has much of an opinion vis-a-vis monogamy/polygamy/concubines at all. It's all about finding your true nature (whatever that might be). Unfortunately there's no 'whatever' option because of how the devs built religions.

[GumShuro]

Originally posted by brownacs:

Originally posted by ShepherdOfCats:

I think at some point during development they got bored with assigning tenets to religions and just started going with whatever.

That's the only reason I can think of that the Han Taoists start with gender equality, and aren't even allowed concubines. Like, 9th century China without concubines is a pretty big miss from the devs.

Sunni Islam doesn't exist when the game starts (867). There also isn't really a Catholic Church or an Orthodox Church. That officially happens in 1054. All missed by the devs.
EDIT: I'd also point out that Chinese religion just doesn't work anything like the systems in this game. It's syncretic, by and large. Chinese people (massively generalising) aren't Buddhists or Taoists or Confucianists or Native Chinese polytheists or whatever. They're all of them at the same time. It can get pretty confusing. I don't think Taoism has much of an opinion vis-a-vis monogamy/polygamy/concubines at all. It's all about finding your true nature (whatever that might be). Unfortunately there's no 'whatever' option because of how the devs built religions.

Sunni islam is actually ashari in this game but it doesnt make sense because the founder of asharism Abul Hasan al Ashari wasnt born 867 and they werent majority.
the developers just did bad resarch.
Asharism is a part near to the sunnis. The religion of the muslims should be Ahlul Sunnah

[brownacs]

Originally posted by Haytham:

Sunni islam is actually ashari in this game but it doesnt make sense because the reformer of asharism Abul Hasan al Ashari wasnt born 867 and they werent majority.
the developers just did bad resarch.
Asharism is a part near to the sunnis. The religion of the muslims should be Ahlul Sunnah

I know, I wrote my dissertation on the spread of Islam (and I can speak Arabic). That's not quite accurate vis-a-vis the game. Sunni Islam is represented (via the Muhammad's (SAW) Succession doctrine): Ash'arism, Muwalladism, Maturidism, Almohadism and Mu'tazilism are all considered to be 'Sunni'. Don't even get me started about that. (EDIT: There are also some really strange choices vis-a-vis Shia. The tenth Imam of the Twelvers is an Isma'ili which makes no sense at all).
I'm not sure they did do bad research to be honest. I mean... a quick look at wikipedia would tell them everything they needed to know. Where were they told Al-Ash'ari was born, and preaching, in 867? I think they created a quite limiting religious system and then found themselves penned in by their own design.

[AdmiralPiett]

I think this discussion has derailed from the original point, being that even if a religion shunned adultery and established a death sentence for adulterers, would that have realistically been enforced on a noble or someone at court? Likely not. If you believe all medieval rulers were completely faithful to their spouses because their religions would allegedly cut their heads off if they weren't, BOY have I got news for you!

[brownacs]

Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:

I think this discussion has derailed from the original point

Apologies. It's a bad habit.

[AdmiralPiett]

Originally posted by brownacs:

Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:

I think this discussion has derailed from the original point

Apologies. It's a bad habit.

Oh it's not a problem, i just thought I'd try to answer or confirm the answer to the original question