PSA : Never become Feudal if you are Tribal kingdom

[Natius]

Less Gold income
Less Levy
Higher internal threat
Expensive Men-at-arms (Cost Prestige no more)
More vassal hate you

[Slimane]

Well, yeah. Tribal is busted right now.

[Natius]

Originally posted by Thought Criminal:

Well, yeah. Tribal is busted right now.

the only way fight byzantium is being tribal nation with 20k+ troops, if you are feudal like
i form tsar russia only have 10k when byzantium have 15k and less income
Totally 0/10 never become feudal again

[corisai]

LOL
By staying tribal you're locked to worst form of succession.
Feudal will receive much more gold - once you will construct your cities & buildings.
Feudal will have better MaA (and even levy but you should be crazy to mass build levy buildings instead of income one).

Yes, transition is painful.

No, it should stay as it. Instead tribal "empires" should recieve additional nerfs. Situation is better then in CK2 but they're still too powerful.

[gidro]

Or learn the game before making definitive assessment like that ? Maybe.

Beating anybody is doable if you're feudal, just not with poor ex-tribal land with one basic building on it. So yeah, good luck with russia. I'd say doable too, but you better save thousands of gold before going feudal to build stuff afterwards, and keep some holy sites for yourself because they bring a lot of money if you can invest in special buildings. I'd worry more about tribal neighbours than tackling bizantium actually, that part I'm sure it could be done if you're patient and know what you're doing.

Haven't got one single vassal rebellion in 500 years, mainly because when I went feudal I already had good rulers who were smart strong...being loved by your vassals is easier than in CK2 especially with dynasty perks and education perks.

[Aldon]

Everyone and his mother seems to think that 20k tribal levies is worth it to live in tiny villages. I conquered byzantium with 8k superior troops. Qualitiy rules later not quantity! Money never was an issue and vassals are no threat if you play your dread game right, tribel and feudal!

[The Former]

Originally posted by Natius:

Less Gold income
Less Levy
Higher internal threat
Expensive Men-at-arms (Cost Prestige no more)
More vassal hate you

Have fun with that in 1260 when all your enemies have armored horsemen and trebuchets.

[Aldon]

Originally posted by World's Coolest Old Guy:

Originally posted by Natius:

Less Gold income
Less Levy
Higher internal threat
Expensive Men-at-arms (Cost Prestige no more)
More vassal hate you

Have fun with that in 1260 when all your enemies have armored horsemen and trebuchets.

that is exactly the point.

[The Former]

Originally posted by Natius:

Originally posted by Thought Criminal:

Well, yeah. Tribal is busted right now.

the only way fight byzantium is being tribal nation with 20k+ troops, if you are feudal like
i form tsar russia only have 10k when byzantium have 15k and less income
Totally 0/10 never become feudal again

Byzantium probably has less income because of their current Basileus + wife + steward situation. Don't expect it to stay that way forever.

The way to fight Byzantium is through alliances, subterfuge, and/or quality soldiers. Your 20k horsemen are probably going to get wiped out in the Greek hills by the 15k Byzantine pikemen, by the way, so be careful of that.

[Natius]

My playstyle is early expansion, i almost never touch late game because i already bury them all since i play tribal fast war (i end most of war in single year even against high end feudal)
byzantium i found little hard because capital have lvl 11 wall even with trebuchet it take 3 months to break
and byzantium already conquer 3 counties in same time
last time i win (conquest to Bulgaria) because im lucky because they are in many war

and i think byzantium need some tweak because all i know byzantium is unstable after collapse western roman empire

[Thiil]

Just don't be a derp when you convert and it's quite easy.

[The Former]

Originally posted by Natius:

My playstyle is early expansion, i almost never touch late game because i already bury them all since i play tribal fast war (i end most of war in single year even against high end feudal)

I highly doubt that. There are regions of the world in which it takes a month to simply cross from one barony to the next. Regardless, the game's not going to be fun for very long if your goal is "conquest at any cost". If you're after world domination, I'd suggest Europa Universalis. It's much more purpose-built for such an experience.

In CK3, you're going to be beset by infighting, low income, murder plots, and more if you just keep expanding at speed.

[ambi]

i submitted to a feudal liege at the start of my tribal game and turned feudal shortly after. i didn't see much difference between tribal and feudal. i guess it's better to turn feudal asap.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Ambigore:

i submitted to a feudal liege at the start of my tribal game and turned feudal shortly after. i didn't see much difference between tribal and feudal. i guess it's better to turn feudal asap.

Reason why so many players whine about conversion is a loss of all tribal buildings. So while they're get used to gold income & more levies from them - they're think conversion is weakened them.
If you're lack buildings - then you don't see any difference (in short run) indeed.

[The Former]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Ambigore:

i submitted to a feudal liege at the start of my tribal game and turned feudal shortly after. i didn't see much difference between tribal and feudal. i guess it's better to turn feudal asap.

Reason why so many players whine about conversion is a loss of all tribal buildings. So while they're get used to gold income & more levies from them - they're think conversion is weakened them.
If you're lack buildings - then you don't see any difference (in short run) indeed.

And indeed, if you get to a point where you have the feudal buildings, you notice you're actually making considerably more gold when you're feudal.

[gidro]

I think many players whinning about feudal being too weak have yet to play as a strong feudal to see the difference. To beat someone like Bizantinum, you better have more than twice their army, because they can go through your paper fortifications in days while it takes you months to siege their walls. And if your army meet in battle you'll need number too. And it'll only get worse with time as they unlock things while you don't.

It can still be done, it's the AI after all, but that'll require a big army and you're missing a lot of content of the game in the process. I might try that kind of thing later on, more as a challenge to see how big we can get as tribal in 600 years, but not because I can't handle the tribal->feudal transition properly.