Why Ally with Vassals?

[Mastur Ch33f]

So whats the point of allying with your own Vassal if you can't call them in a War? Am I missing something here guys? I kinda don't understand why this is a thing.

[Mastur Ch33f]

Messaggio originale di =яενєηąŋŧ=:

Messaggio originale di Steinaar:

I think I want to test a new strategy. No vassals at all and control absolutely everything. The way it stands now, vassals can be worse than thy sworn enemy.

-New Game
-No vassals, including mayors

Let's test this theory and see how it plays out. Bet I get a huge army and tons of coin for controlling my own Kingdom outright like a King should.

Just me and my heir to the kingdom.

That is actually a thing called the North Korea strategy and it's insanely OP when you get big, lol.

You only get 10% of the income from your holdings, but since you have several dozen/hundred it stacks up huge, AND you get the troop bonuses from every building so your Men-at-arms can one-shot God.

Don't those building that provide military buffs specifically say the bonus is applied to "your entire REALM" and not "DOMAIN". Cause "DOMAIN" is only the lands you control directly while "REALM" applies to all the lands including those which your vassals hold? I thought that was the way it worked or am I wrong on this?

[Mastur Ch33f]

Messaggio originale di Steinaar:

Messaggio originale di Mastur Ch33f:

So whats the point of allying with your own Vassal if you can't call them in a War? Am I missing something here guys? I kinda don't understand why this is a thing.

At the start it's not as big of a deal but once you get mid-late game you want to ally with your vassals.

-Vassals usually field anywhere around 3000-5000 soldiers normally, depending on their realm size.

-Vassals are usually close by or within your own borders, your war should be their war

-You can call vassals during war time just like any alliance

-Allied vassals will not riot against you or create factions vs you

Messaggio originale di =яενєηąŋŧ=:

Kinda dumb but also hilarious that vassal counts and dukes won't help you fight external enemies who are trying to take their own land from you.

Duke with 2,000 soldiers is getting sieged down by 700 vikings trying to take his land from him but it's 100% your problem, lol.

I happen to agree, the way it's setup now is pretty broken in my eyes. Doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if you have the high laws they still in house fight when the law says for they're not allowed to. I hate that when vassals are in a war in my kingdom most of the time I can't even offer to help. No option to lend assistance so I have to wait for them to lose and re-declare my lands. It's frustrating


In short I wish vassals were automatically allies. The way it's setup is having vassals actually is a bad idea and hinders your realm. Barely contributing tax, levies, and they do their own thing without following the mandated laws set. Broken system and how it got passed Alpha testing like this is beyond me but meh it's not my game I am just playing someone else's creation. Just because I would do it differently doesn't mean it should be my way.

"-You can call vassals during war time just like any alliance"

I tried to do that but it says "You can't call in vassals into your war" even when I have an alliance with that vassal

[Can'tTouchThis]

You can't call vassals into wars because they're technically already providing you with men. They give you a % of their levy, income etc.

[Steinaar]

I typed that wrong MasterChef;

As an allied vassal you may call them in to war like any other ally.
I've done this before and I am not sure why you are unable to do this.


Also the game does not allow you to ally with family members that hold claims. No kidding they have claims they're family and I gave them the lands they claim. Game says no, for sake of pretending to be difficult you can't ally with those vassals. LAME

Alternatively the game allows use of prestige and call them into war from family head of dynasty but it won't let you ally with family claimants that are vassals.

Everyone wants to say they're a historian and know, well I don't really know ( I wasn't there) but based off of what I learned from history lessons. Is that Liege Lords for the most part held control by absolute totalitarian autocracy with succession laws ordained by the church to pass to their eldest son. Rarely would you see in house fighting like in CKIII and once that fight was finished there was a period of dread per say and most followed their new liege because he just won the war.

That being said this game does all that backwards and doesn't represent anything I learned and know of medieval times. For the sake of pretending to be difficult or forcing you to play the one way the game was made around. And this is why we have threads about this complaining every hour since release of CKIII. Most don't find that fun or historic. Ohh and once you win a war in the game, get ready for instant uprisings. Once you declare absolute crown authority, yeah that's a joke too.

I can only support the game to a point, I do enjoy but the game mechanics are very questionable. The publisher and developer seem to be quiet about what they're going or not going to address. We are almost two weeks since launch and not a single bug fix update yet. That is very very bad. The longer the game takes to bring balance I think it's working as intended and the developers won't fix. Like long standing CKII bugs.

semi-rant over, don't mistake my intent I do enjoy the game
:)

[Steinaar]

Messaggio originale di 40-1Can'tTouchThis:

You can't call vassals into wars because they're technically already providing you with men. They give you a % of their levy, income etc.

you can though, I've allied with my vassals like any other alliance called them into war

especially if they're alliance with someone I am at war with, call them in first

[Mastur Ch33f]

Messaggio originale di Steinaar:

Messaggio originale di 40-1Can'tTouchThis:

You can't call vassals into wars because they're technically already providing you with men. They give you a % of their levy, income etc.

you can though, I've allied with my vassals like any other alliance called them into war

especially if they're alliance with someone I am at war with, call them in first

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2227552758

This is what it says for me

[Steinaar]

Are those vassals already in the war but on the other side? You are feudal correct? Hover over the right ! and see what it says

[Mastur Ch33f]

Messaggio originale di Steinaar:

Are those vassals already in the war but on the other side? You are feudal correct? Hover over the right ! and see what it says

I started a war. Yes im feudal, King of Portugal. That is my Duchess. And I am not sure what you mean to hover over to the right and see what it says, I hovered over the red exclamation mark if that is what you mean and it doesn't show anything

[glythe]

Messaggio originale di CrUsHeR:

Faction blocking, and they can call you into wars.

What he means is: Alliances with allies are a double edged sword. If you strategically give certain people land then it can prevent "rebel" factions from rising against you.

They will call you into wars all day long that they can't win with the understanding that you will gladly and effortlessly waste your soldiers to win wars for them.

Messaggio originale di Steinaar:

Even if you have the high laws they still in house fight when the law says for they're not allowed to. I hate that when vassals are in a war in my kingdom most of the time I can't even offer to help. No option to lend assistance so I have to wait for them to lose and re-declare my lands. It's frustrating

In short I wish vassals were automatically allies.

I think something is broken because House laws preventing infighting don't work. Maybe this is a lack of understand for de Jure on my part?


Vassals being automatic allies would be broken and lead to easy snowballing. But what if : bloodline dynasty vassals are automatically allies. This is a subtle difference but it can work against you just as easily - I had a new house form with a King of Scotland election. They were my bloodline but a different house that eventually became hostile. That new king pretty much took all the land from the king of England under my empire.

This would create the scenario where if some random noble attacks your great grandson and you are the king you can roll in and squash that guy into oblivion. In the case of a "brother against brother war" as their ruler you have a special event with 3 options - help the first son, help the second son, or do not intervene.

[Steinaar]

Messaggio originale di Mastur Ch33f:

Messaggio originale di Steinaar:

Are those vassals already in the war but on the other side? You are feudal correct? Hover over the right ! and see what it says

I started a war. Yes im feudal, King of Portugal. That is my Duchess. And I am not sure what you mean to hover over to the right and see what it says, I hovered over the red exclamation mark if that is what you mean and it doesn't show anything

I did mean this, err Right suppose to be Red icon. It did not display anything? Well it does work sometimes because I get my vassal allies to assist me in my war efforts like any other ally does.

Messaggio originale di glythe:

Vassals being automatic allies would be broken and lead to easy snowballing. But what if : bloodline dynasty vassals are automatically allies. This is a subtle difference but it can work against you just as easily - I had a new house form with a King of Scotland election. They were my bloodline but a different house that eventually became hostile. That new king pretty much took all the land from the king of England under my empire.

This would create the scenario where if some random noble attacks your great grandson and you are the king you can roll in and squash that guy into oblivion. In the case of a "brother against brother war" as their ruler you have a special event with 3 options - help the first son, help the second son, or do not intervene.

If the developers made all ai and players able to have their vassals an ally it should equal out. If the developers gave the players, sure ai too, the option for lieges to control their vassals in combat it would bring more strategy and difficulty.

I think a declaration of war should also be called upon at a certain level and the higher level of authority should always have the option to intervene in some fashion. So if a declaration of war happens to be;
one Earl vs one Duke
the earl may call upon his duke for assistance in some fashion
the Duke may call upon his vassals or his Earls in his realm for assistance.

The higher titles gets to call lower for support and the lower title gets to call his higher for support wherever it falls in the line of titles.

It would bring strategy to the game where it seems lacking, allow us to have our own decision in our kingdom laws and successions, and prevent snowballing. Look this isn't my video game I am not on this development team but this is how I would do it personally. The assets are there and it would require some new coding to work. It's better to admit a failed system and try and correct it vs throw out more DLC and never address the issue of the core game play. Just my two cents

[Mastur Ch33f]

Messaggio originale di Steinaar:

Messaggio originale di Mastur Ch33f:

I started a war. Yes im feudal, King of Portugal. That is my Duchess. And I am not sure what you mean to hover over to the right and see what it says, I hovered over the red exclamation mark if that is what you mean and it doesn't show anything

I did mean this, err Right suppose to be Red icon. It did not display anything? Well it does work sometimes because I get my vassal allies to assist me in my war efforts like any other ally does.

Messaggio originale di glythe:

Vassals being automatic allies would be broken and lead to easy snowballing. But what if : bloodline dynasty vassals are automatically allies. This is a subtle difference but it can work against you just as easily - I had a new house form with a King of Scotland election. They were my bloodline but a different house that eventually became hostile. That new king pretty much took all the land from the king of England under my empire.

This would create the scenario where if some random noble attacks your great grandson and you are the king you can roll in and squash that guy into oblivion. In the case of a "brother against brother war" as their ruler you have a special event with 3 options - help the first son, help the second son, or do not intervene.

If the developers made all ai and players able to have their vassals an ally it should equal out. If the developers gave the players, sure ai too, the option for lieges to control their vassals in combat it would bring more strategy and difficulty.

I think a declaration of war should also be called upon at a certain level and the higher level of authority should always have the option to intervene in some fashion. So if a declaration of war happens to be;
one Earl vs one Duke
the earl may call upon his duke for assistance in some fashion
the Duke may call upon his vassals or his Earls in his realm for assistance.

The higher titles gets to call lower for support and the lower title gets to call his higher for support wherever it falls in the line of titles.

It would bring strategy to the game where it seems lacking, allow us to have our own decision in our kingdom laws and successions, and prevent snowballing. Look this isn't my video game I am not on this development team but this is how I would do it personally. The assets are there and it would require some new coding to work. It's better to admit a failed system and try and correct it vs throw out more DLC and never address the issue of the core game play. Just my two cents

Then my only assumption is that it's bugged. There is another person I talked to on another thread and he has -30 opinion from Absolute Tribal Autrority despite being on Low Crown Authority (rank 2). He even switched back to (rank 1) and still gets the -30 opinion on all his vassals. I also had trouble with the Lover achievement where you need to have 10 lovers, but it only worked for me when I had 11 lovers. This game has bugs IMO but sadly they are not being addressed by the Devs as of yet.

Are you playing on the 1.03 version of the game? I don't understand why I can't call Vassals as allies during a war when I am allied with them but others can. This is really frustrating

[Steinaar]

My only thought is they are involved already so you can't call upon them because of that. I can't really give you advice out side of this and yes bugs bugs bugs. Since the developing team decided to say it's all secret than I guess they are either fixing them all or none of them. extremist ftw

nah we will get em fixed, hopefully sooner than later

Can someone else explain why he can not get his vassal, who is an ally to assist him in combat?