MEN-AT-ARMS COUNTERS AND TERRAIN BONUSES EXPLAINED!

[The Former]

Heavens I'm tired of seeing these complaints. So here we go. I'll explain why the current balance is perfectly logical.

Men-at-Arms and What They Represent

Bowmen are styled as archers and are obviously bow-wielding soldiers deployed on foot.

Light Footmen are styled as skirmishers. Lightly armored, mobile troops deployed in loose order to harass the enemy with heavy projectiles such as javelins or axes. Note that they are not styled as infantry. They are not battle line troops. There is a difference between "footman" and "infantry". Your levies are your light infantry.

Light Horsemen are styled as light cavalry. These are your harassment and envelopment troops. They ride light and fast. The horses wear no armor. The riders might wear chain at best, but more likely brigandine or even just gambeson.

Pikemen are men of the line wielding long (10-20 foot) spears.

Armored Footman are indeed styled as infantry - heavy infantry, at that - and we can thus suppose they're shielded soldiers wearing the most protective gear of their time period. Plate in later stages of the game, layers of chain, leather, and gambeson in earlier periods.

Armored Horsemen are your shock cavalry. They're not knights, but they come close. Their purpose is not to flank, but to right straight ahead into the enemy and shatter their formation.

Crossbowmen aren't a direct upgrade to archers, but rather ranged footmen whose purpose is to pierce armor at distance.

Counters

Key point! COUNTERS ARE NOT ABOUT DAMAGE. Countering a unit does not mean you do more damage to that unit, it means you hinder that unit's fighting effectiveness!

Bowmen counter Skirmishers. This is because they have superior range and rate of fight, and skirmishers are lightly armored. If they have shields at all, they're likely quite small and only so effective against arrow after arrow.

Light Footmen counter Heavy Infantry. Why is this?

• They use heavy projectiles that can stun, break shields, dislodge pieces of armor, and so forth.
  
• Their light armor makes them more mobile, making it impossible for the heavy infantry to pin them down one on one.
  
• They have greater stamina thanks to carrying far less weight.

Light Horsemen counter Archers. This is because they ride swiftly and can threaten archers in a matter of moments, making it difficult for the archers to actually do anything effective without risking decimation.

Pikemen counter Heavy Cavalry and Light Cavalry because horses will generally refuse to charge at braced spears, and the spears are more than long enough to reach a rider in the saddle who would otherwise feel invincible.

Armored Footmen counter Spearmen because they can wade into battle, large shields and heavy armor protecting them from the prodding of spears, and get in close where a spear is useless. Spearmen must thus stay on the back foot and try to keep them at distance for as long as possible.

Armored Horsemen counter Archers for the same reason light cavalry does. They just also do a lot more damage into general and are tougher.

Crossbowmen counter Heavy Cavalry and Heavy Infantry because they have to be very careful about getting into a crossbow's range, lest they end up slaughtered. Crossbows can quite easily pierce heavy armor.

Advantageous Terrain

Bowmen

• Forest: Bowmen can wait for enemies to get into range while hiding behind cover, allowing them to pick off enemies more effectively. Their guard isn't up if they don't know archers are on the field. Archers are quintessential ambush troops.
  
• Hills: Superior elevation means longer shots that can more effectively drop in past shields. Why not mountains? Because at such elevation, they'd actually end out out of effective range.
  
• Taiga: See forest. Trees and brush make for good ambushes, and archers love a good ambush.

Light Footmen

• Forest: Being able to get close without being seen negates a skirmisher's diminished range, and with their light armor, they can navigate this rough terrain far more effectively than more heavily armored foes. They thrive in rough terrain like this.
  
• Jungle: See above.
  
• Taiga: See above.

Light Horsemen

• Drylands/Plans: On open ground, horses have no obstacles to contend with. Cavalry in these conditions can gallop hard and fast whenever they please, never losing momentum until the moment they impact the enemy.

Pikemen

• Hills: Uneven ground makes for defiles (narrow passes), which is exactly what a pikeman wants. All the pikes can point in one direction, and the enemy will often have to go through that passage if they want to advance. Remember, when we're talking about hills, we're talking about this[3.bp.blogspot.com], not this[images.fineartamerica.com]. The latter would be plains.
  
• Mountains/Desert Mountains: Same deal, only even more pronounced. Enemies practically have no choice but to go through the narrow passes the pikemen have secured.

Armored Footmen

• None: Because they don't excel anywhere in particular. They wade into battle like walking tanks. That's not facilitated by any particular type of terrain.

Armored Horsemen

• Drylands/Plains: See Light Horsemen.

Crossbowmen

• Hills: Same as archers. The reason the rest of the archer bonuses don't apply is likely because they run heavier than archers, carrying more equipment and often wearing heavier protection. They're also not really the ambushers archers are. They can't retreat to the next tree after firing their first one or two shots. They have to fire, then stay put as they reload over the course of no less than 20 seconds.

Disadvantageous Terrain

Cavalry has trouble in hills, mountains, and wetlands for one simple reason: Momentum is everything. Without momentum, lances are largely useless and standard spears are less effective. Light cavalry further thrives on hit-and-run tactics, while heavy cavalry thrives on the morale shock of seeing a wall of horses barreling towards you. All this is negated when terrain prevents momentum from building easily.

(One could argue that forest and jungle should be in here, but horses can navigate this fairly easily if need be. I can, however, see the argument.)

Crossbowmen are at risk on open ground because they're sitting ducks. Without any rough terrain to protect them while they reload, they can be peppered by enemy archers or run down by enemy cavalry while they're vulnerable.

[Team Triss]

Based World's Coolest Old Guy once again with the info dump.

Mods, can we get a pin?

[Oaks]

Awesome. Thanks for writing.

[peequi]

Wow, great write up. This is how you use anger to be productive lol.

The Men At Arms is a wonderful idea to the game and I believe historically accurate. I do feel the light horsemen are not working properly, they tend not to be effective in the retreating phases where as the winning team they should be getting many kills, at least on plains.

But overall I like the idea and again as a historical/RP player it is really cool.

[Angel]

a nice summary of what the game already tells you without having to click on the different icons, might be nice to have on a notepad on a second monitor

[Crim]

Heavy > Pike > Horse > Archer > Light > Heavy

[Rex Regis]

Originally posted by Angel:

a nice summary of what the game already tells you without having to click on the different icons, might be nice to have on a notepad on a second monitor

you would be shocked at how many people dont read the tooltips.

[Kajsa_Kavat]

The only problem now is this: Why would they read here if they won't read in game? :D

[Crim]

Originally posted by World's Coolest Old Guy:

The riders might wear chain at best, but more likely brigandine or even just gambeson.

For the time period in the game, I wouldn't be surprised if brigandine is more of the heavy infantry armor

[VoiD]

tbh I could be wrong but in later ages heavy infantry should stop being countered by crossbows, plate is nearly imune to bolts and arrows to the point shields weren't even necessary.

The only real counter to those would be, probably, guns and possibly horse archers, not because they can actually pierce armor, but because the are too mobile and can harass heavy troops unpunished.

Unless of course heavy infantry doesn't ever mean full plate armors.

[Crim]

Originally posted by Talamare:

Originally posted by World's Coolest Old Guy:

The riders might wear chain at best, but more likely brigandine or even just gambeson.

For the time period in the game, I wouldn't be surprised if brigandine is more of the heavy infantry armor

Correction........

The tech that unlocks "Heavy Infantry" is literally called 'Quilted Armor'
Heavy Infantry in this game is Gambeson, Linen/Cotton Armor

[AlexMBrennan]

OK, and what does this mean in practise? How do I pick my troops when I don't know which enemy I will be fighting this week? Presumably the only viable strategy is to pick units for your home terrain, and wait for the enemy to come to you?

Great theory crafting, but no one cares because this is a video game and not a medieval warfare conference where you can present your paper.

[Crim]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

OK, and what does this mean in practise? How do I pick my troops when I don't know which enemy I will be fighting this week? Presumably the only viable strategy is to pick units for your home terrain, and wait for the enemy to come to you?

Great theory crafting, but no one cares because this is a video game and not a medieval warfare conference where you can present your paper.

This thread was made in response to a different thread in which people were complaining that Light Infantry counters Heavy Infantry

Also, you could technically train MAA suitable for your enemies terrain, but let's be honest... No enemy is your enemy long enough to bother the investment...

[ModerateOsprey]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

OK, and what does this mean in practise? How do I pick my troops when I don't know which enemy I will be fighting this week? Presumably the only viable strategy is to pick units for your home terrain, and wait for the enemy to come to you?

Great theory crafting, but no one cares because this is a video game and not a medieval warfare conference where you can present your paper.

No, but it is a medieval history simulator, albeit abstracted, and warfare is part of that.

You may not be able to switch out men at arms for another type without cost, but not impossible. Also, if you are smart, you can pick your ground that is advantageous for a forthcoming battle.

[Messsucher]

A good info, have to say.

[The Former]

Originally posted by Talamare:

Originally posted by World's Coolest Old Guy:

The riders might wear chain at best, but more likely brigandine or even just gambeson.

For the time period in the game, I wouldn't be surprised if brigandine is more of the heavy infantry armor

Fair point. In the majority of the game, we can probably figure heavy foot are wearing brigandine.

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

OK, and what does this mean in practise? How do I pick my troops when I don't know which enemy I will be fighting this week? Presumably the only viable strategy is to pick units for your home terrain, and wait for the enemy to come to you?

Great theory crafting, but no one cares because this is a video game and not a medieval warfare conference where you can present your paper.

1. They do care, I wrote this in response to people throwing a fit about "HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT PIKES ARE GOOD ON HILLS BECAUSE THE PHALANX IN MACEDON!!" or "WHY WOULD LIGHT INFANTRY COUNTER HEAVY INFANTRY?!"

2. Pick by what's around you. You can see the men at arms your neighbors have. Pick based on that, or pick based on the terrain you expect you'll be fighting in. Bowmen are an excellent choice in Wales, for example.