Help me out please.

[ElBumBum]

I don't wanna sound like a hater. I loved the premise of the game. The complex side of feudal politics is fun to play.

However, this tutorial play is giving me headaches combined with stomach aches. Here's what happened (If you dont want to be bothered by my RANT-ish story, beware of reading it);

1) Vassal A exposes/shares a secret of Vassal B. This secret is Vassal B being a cannibal.

So, I saved at this point; cuz there were some things that didn't make much sense so I could come back here after my plan A.
--------------------------------
Plan A:

A-1) I exposed Vassal B's dark secret. He became a criminal.
A-2) I tried imprisoning Vassal B. However, the factors that come into play when I clicked imprison were outrageous. I mean, why would their OPINION OF ME matter in an arrest situation? Do criminals get a free pass when they dislike the police? So according to some BS condiitons my arresting chance was below 0!

A-3) I went to war with this Vassal B alone. (Vassal A and C did not intervene). For some reason Vassal B having mediocre prowess and lesser experience, he somehow butchered my vastly superior knights and similar strength army.

At this point, I just loaded up my previous save file where I made plan a and additionally plan B!
--------------------------------
After learning about Vassal B being a cannibalistic psycho, I kept it as a secret bcz I knew I would be obliterated if I went to direct war. Reasonably, I started spending money on military. While on the build, I get a notification;

"Earl Connor McGregor (16) (Vassal C) backs up his lil bro GigaChad (14) as the rightful ruler of the throne, and created a faction. "

And wanna know of whom this faction is assembled by? Of course Vassal A, Vassal B, with Vassal C. So the Vassal who shared Cannibalistic B info with me, sides up with this exact same psycho, even when our relationship is above 20-30s. WTF?

B-1) So I get mad and denounce this lil GigaChad boy, with no effect of course. Then I try to imprison Vassal C, who announced this faction. Again his opinion of me mattered so much I couldn't lay a finger on him. Bcz he thinks he is special, no touching. But I expected this, and had my full army rallied and camped in his lands.

B-2)After the failed arrest attempt, I couldn't attack this lil brat. I could find no justifiable reason to attack this guy, even though they were forming up a rebellion right in front of my eyes. The per cent was rising in the factions tab. After several weeks of my incompetent army wandering around on some duchy, these swag boys declared war on me. Some frat boys, a cannibal, and a cannibal's bff.

B-3) Now with a reasonable reason! I attacked this McGregor's tiny army. I almost defeated them when Vassal A and B made it to the battle. And of course I was obliterated once again. Bcz... of course, why not!


So what I'm angry here is, this whole level of difficulty seems fabricated as much as my king's unpressed claim on another land. If the guy tells me the other guy being a cannibal why would he team up with someone who he despises? I could understand that if he despised me as well, but I was just a really average dude trying to learn making money with no aggression. I even gifted him 150 golds last month!

And why can I not stomp on my own vassal's heads when they are being disobeying? Who would have a say in my internal affairs?

And why does someone's precious opinions of me matter that much in a pretty physical action such as imprisonment? Am I not the king? How can my men just storm in and put that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ in a tiny torture cell while making everyone fear my wrath?

And why can a well known cannibal criminal still get the full faithful support of his people? Leave aside the fact that he is a cannibal, his city was under a lot of turmoil recently, and add that to this cannibalism?! His people should crucify his ass, without even me needing to lift a finger.

Anywways, thanks for reading, and congrats if you could read this far!

I could use some suggestions, or some reasonable explanations.

[glythe]

So here's what you do next time.

If you are stronger than cannibal vassal and you want to revoke his title:

1. imprison him for being cannibal. If he resists he will start a war. If he doesnt throw him in jail. Because he is a criminal you can revoke his title.

2. If he resists beat him and then throw him in jail and revoke his title.

[teron]

Note that to revoke titles you need to be crown authority level 2 (feudal or clan). If tribal it is tribal authority level 3.

With out that, you do not have enough power over your direct vassals to revoke titles.

[Pie Lord]

If your councilors aren't locked in their jobs for the tutorial you can use your spymaster to try and improve imprisonment chance and your chancellor to improve internal relations to boost vassal opinion.
Make sure you have as many knights as you can afford, I normally keep extras to fill in for the maimed and slain. If you lose a battle it may not be over yet either, as long as you're in friendly lands and not in debt you can slowly replenish troops and that along with an enemies attrition from sieges can give you an edge. If you can lure them to a fortified province you can try to use defensive buildings for a boost.

[Ashling]

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

A-2) I tried imprisoning Vassal B. However, the factors that come into play when I clicked imprison were outrageous. I mean, why would their OPINION OF ME matter in an arrest situation? Do criminals get a free pass when they dislike the police? So according to some BS condiitons my arresting chance was below 0!

You can always imprison someone, that's not affected by an opinion modifier. What happens next does depend on the opinion and who they are which is just basically the success/failure chance (someone who distrusts you will more likely hear about and act against you organizing to imprison them). Like in the instance you provided, you did try and imprison him, he was able to thwart the attempt, and now you're at war with an enforceable demand to successfully imprison him.

It's an important distinction to make because if you're imprisoning a courtier or something they will leave if you fail at the task, so it can be useful as a tool success or no.

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

A-3) I went to war with this Vassal B alone. (Vassal A and C did not intervene). For some reason Vassal B having mediocre prowess and lesser experience, he somehow butchered my vastly superior knights and similar strength army.

Prowess doesn't matter for generalship (okay, it does but) martial matters more and traits can swing it one way or another. Martial gives you advantage, which basically effects how much damage you'll be dealing to the opponent. (So attacking across a river or onto a hill may take away your martial advantage and essentially give it to them).
On the other hand, Knights do use prowess with each prowess adding 3 full damage (so a knight with 1 prowess would kill 1 enemy with 3 toughness. An actual example would be a 4 prowess knight killing a single peasant, levy person in a day).

So while having a high prowess stat is important, so is having multiple knights. The more the merrier really.

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

So the Vassal who shared Cannibalistic B info with me, sides up with this exact same psycho, even when our relationship is above 20-30s. WTF?

They need 80 opinion to not join a faction (I think in the 60s is when they start considering that maybe, potentially you're alright)

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

If the guy tells me the other guy being a cannibal why would he team up with someone who he despises?

Telling you the other guy's a cannibal doesn't necessarily mean those two are enemies. But if they were rivals or something, then there really should be a check for that. Like "will not join rival's factions".

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

I even gifted him 150 golds last month!

Should've bought mercenaries those ingrates

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

And why can I not stomp on my own vassal's heads when they are being disobeying? Who would have a say in my internal affairs?

There used to be a pretty good mechanic in CK2 where you could be like "I'm your liege, so submit and don't join factions". CK3 lacks the nuances of a divine right to rule system and instead puts you more in a leadership position herding cats. Everyone of them hates you and it's on your king to prove he deserves the biggest scratching post through family & friends (and blackmail & murder).

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

And why can a well known cannibal criminal still get the full faithful support of his people? Leave aside the fact that he is a cannibal, his city was under a lot of turmoil recently, and add that to this cannibalism?! His people should crucify his ass, without even me needing to lift a finger.

Well, it's sorta your problem, isn't it? Why would a peasant do something about a guy you or one of your ancestors put in charge. Seems kinda above their pay grade if you ask me.

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

I could use some suggestions, or some reasonable explanations.

Don't know if I answered any of your questions, or only talked about things you knew. Anywho, hope I at least helped a bit.

Edit: whoops, a 1 prowess knight does 3 damage total. I wrongfully said it was 1 to 1 which it isn't.

[♠.brT]

Reason why opinion in this case matters is because if he likes you enough he may allow himself to be imprisioned, he still gonna dislike you a little bit for arresting him but he understands he kinda deserved it. Also another reason why you may care about the opinion is that if you end up relasing him (or more likely ransoming him later) he'll still be your vassal, and if he hates you he'll make your life a bit more difficult to say the least.

So if you want to earn points with your vassals you could pardon them from their crimes instead of arresting them.

As for the faction stuff, basically your vassals may hate each other but they all like the other guy to be in charge rather than you. Politics be like that sometimes, solution is to bribe your vassals until they like you enough (+80 opinion) or get some favors or hooks on them to blackmail them, another thing you can do if you have kids is to marry your kids to their kids, this creates a non aggression pact that stops them from joining factions against you.

You can be a tyrant if you want, you can imprision (or try to imprision) people that are joining factions against you, even though that isn't a justifiable reason to imprision people because there needs to be some laws in this world, you can eat the opinion penalty of being a tyrant and do it anyway. You may have to deal with more rebelions but hey the mad king is gonna be mad am i right?

who's to say that the courtiers of your cannibal vassal aren't plotting to kill the bastard? or maybe they are all terrified of the him eating them if they show disloyalty, you could try a plot to assassinate the man, and chances are a lot of his courtiers may join you in the plot.

[Lady Dormouse]

Is your ruler Catholic? Any chance of getting the Pope to excommunicate the known cannibal? If so, do it.

Have children? Can you marry one off or betroth them to a foreign ruler who has a sizable army? Forming an alliance with such a ruler will give you someone to call upon if and when your vassals rise up against you. Might even make them think twice before trying to overthrow you.

[ElBumBum]

Oh thanks for all the replies. Didnt expect this level of help. Ill try to reply to them all :D

Originally posted by teron:

Note that to revoke titles you need to be crown authority level 2 (feudal or clan). If tribal it is tribal authority level 3.

With out that, you do not have enough power over your direct vassals to revoke titles.

As you have mentioned i couldnt revoke his title bcz im merely a petty king. My authority was not powerful enough :(

Originally posted by Pie Lord:

If your councilors aren't locked in their jobs for the tutorial you can use your spymaster to try and improve imprisonment chance and your chancellor to improve internal relations to boost vassal opinion.
Make sure you have as many knights as you can afford, I normally keep extras to fill in for the maimed and slain. If you lose a battle it may not be over yet either, as long as you're in friendly lands and not in debt you can slowly replenish troops and that along with an enemies attrition from sieges can give you an edge. If you can lure them to a fortified province you can try to use defensive buildings for a boost.

I dont kniw how a seat can be locked but anywaysmy best spymaster was not good enough. I have found out that they can support my "personal business" but they couldnt empower it a lot.

Hmm, maybe i should learn a bit more about combat :D

[ElBumBum]

Originally posted by Triangle:

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

A-2) I tried imprisoning Vassal B. However, the factors that come into play when I clicked imprison were outrageous. I mean, why would their OPINION OF ME matter in an arrest situation? Do criminals get a free pass when they dislike the police? So according to some BS condiitons my arresting chance was below 0!

You can always imprison someone, that's not affected by an opinion modifier. What happens next does depend on the opinion and who they are which is just basically the success/failure chance (someone who distrusts you will more likely hear about and act against you organizing to imprison them). Like in the instance you provided, you did try and imprison him, he was able to thwart the attempt, and now you're at war with an enforceable demand to successfully imprison him.

It's an important distinction to make because if you're imprisoning a courtier or something they will leave if you fail at the task, so it can be useful as a tool success or no.

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

A-3) I went to war with this Vassal B alone. (Vassal A and C did not intervene). For some reason Vassal B having mediocre prowess and lesser experience, he somehow butchered my vastly superior knights and similar strength army.

Prowess doesn't matter for generalship (okay, it does but) martial matters more and traits can swing it one way or another. Martial gives you advantage, which basically effects how much damage you'll be dealing to the opponent. (So attacking across a river or onto a hill may take away your martial advantage and essentially give it to them).
On the other hand, Knights do use prowess with each prowess adding 3 full damage (so a knight with 1 prowess would kill 1 enemy with 3 toughness. An actual example would be a 4 prowess knight killing a single peasant, levy person in a day).

So while having a high prowess stat is important, so is having multiple knights. The more the merrier really.

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

So the Vassal who shared Cannibalistic B info with me, sides up with this exact same psycho, even when our relationship is above 20-30s. WTF?

They need 80 opinion to not join a faction (I think in the 60s is when they start considering that maybe, potentially you're alright)

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

If the guy tells me the other guy being a cannibal why would he team up with someone who he despises?

Telling you the other guy's a cannibal doesn't necessarily mean those two are enemies. But if they were rivals or something, then there really should be a check for that. Like "will not join rival's factions".

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

I even gifted him 150 golds last month!

Should've bought mercenaries those ingrates

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

And why can I not stomp on my own vassal's heads when they are being disobeying? Who would have a say in my internal affairs?

There used to be a pretty good mechanic in CK2 where you could be like "I'm your liege, so submit and don't join factions". CK3 lacks the nuances of a divine right to rule system and instead puts you more in a leadership position herding cats. Everyone of them hates you and it's on your king to prove he deserves the biggest scratching post through family & friends (and blackmail & murder).

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

And why can a well known cannibal criminal still get the full faithful support of his people? Leave aside the fact that he is a cannibal, his city was under a lot of turmoil recently, and add that to this cannibalism?! His people should crucify his ass, without even me needing to lift a finger.

Well, it's sorta your problem, isn't it? Why would a peasant do something about a guy you or one of your ancestors put in charge. Seems kinda above their pay grade if you ask me.

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

I could use some suggestions, or some reasonable explanations.

Don't know if I answered any of your questions, or only talked about things you knew. Anywho, hope I at least helped a bit.

Edit: whoops, a 1 prowess knight does 3 damage total. I wrongfully said it was 1 to 1 which it isn't.

Alright so i can kind of take his opinion being negative of me means as if he is expecting an opposition move towards himself so he already has some precautions taken already.


Hmm maybe his knights were strong too, i shouldve checked that. And this cannibal guy was on rule for many years so he could have some experience advantage over my considerably new king.

I got it. So i should keep the vassals in almost excellent relationship if one or two vassal relationships are going south.

And yeah, i wouldve guaranteed victory over the cannibal war if i kept that money for mercs.

Then i could move on to assassinating the other claimants >:(

And yeah, ive learned my lesson. If the king is gonna die, make sure to leave no room for competition between the children. I thought those kids would get along just fine with the new king, their half brother. But i got so upset when they announced their support for this other claimant on the throne, the other half brother.

Hmm as youve suggested, maybe his relatives or close persons disliked him too. I was surprised when i started a murder scheme on some characters and some important characters joined in on the fun. Maybe some people wouldve joined on that attempt. The problem is, i never attempted to murder him, since my spymaster could not guarantee a good percentage. It was 3-5%. And that is prolly bcz of him being paranoid and hateful of me.

If i started that scheme, and some key characters joined in, would they increase my chances of killing him?

[ElBumBum]

Originally posted by ♠.brT:

Reason why opinion in this case matters is because if he likes you enough he may allow himself to be imprisioned, he still gonna dislike you a little bit for arresting him but he understands he kinda deserved it. Also another reason why you may care about the opinion is that if you end up relasing him (or more likely ransoming him later) he'll still be your vassal, and if he hates you he'll make your life a bit more difficult to say the least.

So if you want to earn points with your vassals you could pardon them from their crimes instead of arresting them.

As for the faction stuff, basically your vassals may hate each other but they all like the other guy to be in charge rather than you. Politics be like that sometimes, solution is to bribe your vassals until they like you enough (+80 opinion) or get some favors or hooks on them to blackmail them, another thing you can do if you have kids is to marry your kids to their kids, this creates a non aggression pact that stops them from joining factions against you.

You can be a tyrant if you want, you can imprision (or try to imprision) people that are joining factions against you, even though that isn't a justifiable reason to imprision people because there needs to be some laws in this world, you can eat the opinion penalty of being a tyrant and do it anyway. You may have to deal with more rebelions but hey the mad king is gonna be mad am i right?

who's to say that the courtiers of your cannibal vassal aren't plotting to kill the bastard? or maybe they are all terrified of the him eating them if they show disloyalty, you could try a plot to assassinate the man, and chances are a lot of his courtiers may join you in the plot.

Managing the relations is a hassle :D but ill get there.

I wanted to try the tyrant way yeah, but the lack of options kept me on stall. I thought i could simply attack my vassal bcz of the faction issue, just like in Medieval Total War 2. Ill look up on tyrannical ruling too then.

Hahaha, you are right, they mustve been scared ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in case he ate them too. So i should keep these guys on a leash. I can see why the council seats should be filled by the best people. However, what do you do, when powerful vassals want a seatbut they lack any certain skill, or there simply is someone just way better than them?

[ElBumBum]

Originally posted by Lady Dormouse:

Is your ruler Catholic? Any chance of getting the Pope to excommunicate the known cannibal? If so, do it.

Have children? Can you marry one off or betroth them to a foreign ruler who has a sizable army? Forming an alliance with such a ruler will give you someone to call upon if and when your vassals rise up against you. Might even make them think twice before trying to overthrow you.

Ill check if i can marry any of my ugly offspring to any of theirs.

As far as i remember, i couldnt request an excommunicado, bcz my faith wasnt strong or sth :s

[ElBumBum]

Well, I blackmailed the cannibal (Vassal B) and with the strong hook he had to step back from the faction. And with his removal the bulk of their military strength dwindled and the faction got cancelled.

I also married one of my daughters to Vassal A who became my ally and forced out of any faction in the future as well.

Then I worked my ways with Vassal C, McGregor Half brother, and even gave him a seat in my council. He had +66 relations with me when unfortunately he happened to fall victim to my harmless murder scheme :) I now have almost full power over the duchy.

I am now working my way to killing the other vassals silently :))

I feel a bit more intelligent haha

Thanks for the tips everyone.

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

Well, I blackmailed the cannibal (Vassal B) and with the strong hook he had to step back from the faction. And with his removal the bulk of their military strength dwindled and the faction got cancelled.

I also married one of my daughters to Vassal A who became my ally and forced out of any faction in the future as well.

Then I worked my ways with Vassal C, McGregor Half brother, and even gave him a seat in my council. He had +66 relations with me when unfortunately he happened to fall victim to my harmless murder scheme :) I now have almost full power over the duchy.

I am now working my way to killing the other vassals silently :))

I feel a bit more intelligent haha

Thanks for the tips everyone.

Thanks for the entertaining story, hope the cannibal arresting goes well.

[glythe]

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

If i started that scheme, and some key characters joined in, would they increase my chances of killing him?

I'm glad you found the murder tool.

Schemes need a minimum number of accomplices to get them to work. Beyond that Im not sure if you really need more.

Often the only person I can convince is some buffoon who has 2 intrigue. I would never want them to help on a murder plot if this were "real life".

[ElBumBum]

Originally posted by AmesNFire:

Thanks for the entertaining story, hope the cannibal arresting goes well.

Hahaha, glad that you enjoyed it. Seems like this game will generate a lot more interesting stories. And btw that cannibal got his head rolling after a hopeless war against me hehe.

What's more interesting to me is now both Vassal A and B have their last offsprings as their rulers. One is a 2 year old boy, and the other is a 12 yo girl which I already married to my son. I can see that in order to keep them in control I had to wipe out their strongest members and I am now feared. Feels really immersive and badass :)

[ElBumBum]

Originally posted by glythe:

Originally posted by ElBumBum:

If i started that scheme, and some key characters joined in, would they increase my chances of killing him?

I'm glad you found the murder tool.

Schemes need a minimum number of accomplices to get them to work. Beyond that Im not sure if you really need more.

Often the only person I can convince is some buffoon who has 2 intrigue. I would never want them to help on a murder plot if this were "real life".

:D::D that sorry buffoon haha :D Funny thing is, I had 4 people join me on a murder scheme once, and at the end of the successful killing, the victim shouted my name in agony and I had to live with that despite having 4 accomplices. And recently, I killed an unruly basterd only by myself.

P.S. However, I can say saving before the scheme event, and then reloading if the outcomes are not favorable is a good way to cheese your way through sometimes. I got caught 3 times and at 4th attempt my murder was successful.