Education

[AcesPlusEights]

I'm wondering whats best when teaching kids. Is it a person that has high skill in martial, intrigue, etc, or is it better to get someone who had a really good education like 4 stars to teach them?If anyone knows let me know

[Sputnik]

This paradox wiki page explains all this stuff in detail
https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Attributes#Education

But here's their priority list for suitable educators:
1. Someone you trust not to kill your child
2. Genius
3. Intelligent
4. Quick / Shrewd
5. Value of Primary Attribute (which matches child's focus)
6. Learning Attribute

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by Sputnik:

This paradox wiki page explains all this stuff in detail
https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Attributes#Education

But here's their priority list for suitable educators:
1. Someone you trust not to kill your child
2. Genius
3. Intelligent
4. Quick / Shrewd
5. Value of Primary Attribute (which matches child's focus)
6. Learning Attribute

You only need a University in your Realm, a University counts as 12 points for the education outcome and child needs 16 points for the tier 4 education.

[Sputnik]

I'm not sure the OP can actually build a university. In any case that list ought to help him make up the missing 16-12 points. I'm seem to be the missing six extra fingers, so I''ll leave that to you college educated types work out.

[AcesPlusEights]

Originally posted by Sputnik:

This paradox wiki page explains all this stuff in detail
https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Attributes#Education

But here's their priority list for suitable educators:
1. Someone you trust not to kill your child
2. Genius
3. Intelligent
4. Quick / Shrewd
5. Value of Primary Attribute (which matches child's focus)
6. Learning Attribute

That was helpful thx m8

[River]

For those who did not check the website, I wanted to point something out that I read there:

"each year the score has a 60% chance to increase by 2 and a 40% chance to not increase"

So, as far as I understood, that 60/40 is influenced by the above mentioned modifiers:
- Is the chosen education field compliant with the child's personality (ergo: bossy -> martial)
- is the Guardian's expertise in that field high? (ergo: Martial: 18)
- is the Guardian a good tutor (ergo: Learning: 12)
- is the Guardian intelligent (ergo: Guardian: Genius)
- Do you have a good tutor (ergo: Tutor: Excellent) --! this is NOT the guardian
- Do you have a university?
- is your spouse focusing on Patronage?

All that being said, if you throw each year a stupidly bad score, then regardless off all those modifiers, you might still end up with a level 2 or 3 education.

(case in point, I had a genius heir, that is bossy (stewardship) with a guardian with 26 in stewardship, 12 in learning and is also a genius. my tutor is excellent but I don't understand why he only got a lvl 2 stewardship education. and now I know... bad throw of the dice)

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by River:

For those who did not check the website, I wanted to point something out that I read there:

"each year the score has a 60% chance to increase by 2 and a 40% chance to not increase"

So, as far as I understood, that 60/40 is influenced by the above mentioned modifiers:
- Is the chosen education field compliant with the child's personality (ergo: bossy -> martial)
- is the Guardian's expertise in that field high? (ergo: Martial: 18)
- is the Guardian a good tutor (ergo: Learning: 12)
- is the Guardian intelligent (ergo: Guardian: Genius)
- Do you have a good tutor (ergo: Tutor: Excellent) --! this is NOT the guardian
- Do you have a university?
- is your spouse focusing on Patronage?

All that being said, if you throw each year a stupidly bad score, then regardless off all those modifiers, you might still end up with a level 2 or 3 education.

(case in point, I had a genius heir, that is bossy (stewardship) with a guardian with 26 in stewardship, 12 in learning and is also a genius. my tutor is excellent but I don't understand why he only got a lvl 2 stewardship education. and now I know... bad throw of the dice)

You forgot an important thing, but it is only for historical Characters aka Characters, who exist at Game Start, if they have an scripted Education Tier and they start the Game as a Child, they are more likely to get their scripted Education Tier, it is not always the scripted Education Tier, because of the randomness of the Game.

And I am more than sure, that W&W will add Events for Bonus Points for the Education Score.

[Сааребас]

Nowadays I try to get someone with a learning lifestyle specifically one that help boost the ward's attribute. Pref from a ruler with acces to a university.

Second to that character traits

Lifestyle focus can be increased with artifacts so imo less valuable.

If you're going to teach the kid yourself, go on a pilgrimage and make some detours to get enough diplomacy points to get the trait where children can get 1-3 points increase in skills, aswell.
This is also great for learning without having to spend actual time in that lifestyle.

[CrUsHeR]

For your first two sons, it only really makes sense to educate them yourself.
Because the personality traits are 100x more important than the education, even moreso if you breed the Genius trait into your bloodline. No use in having a 4-star educated heir if he has a poor/sinful personality trait combination.

Ideally you get the Philosopher Culture tradition if your culture doesn't have it already, then kids become mostly Pensive so you can always pick Learning education for them and get optimal results. I.e. because you have high learning yourself, all your wards also get a good score there, so this tends to get better with each generation.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

For your first two sons, it only really makes sense to educate them yourself.
Because the personality traits are 100x more important than the education, even moreso if you breed the Genius trait into your bloodline. No use in having a 4-star educated heir if he has a poor/sinful personality trait combination.

Ideally you get the Philosopher Culture tradition if your culture doesn't have it already, then kids become mostly Pensive so you can always pick Learning education for them and get optimal results. I.e. because you have high learning yourself, all your wards also get a good score there, so this tends to get better with each generation.

Not for the first 2 sons, but the 2 youngest Sons.

Ultimogeniture is so much better than Primogeniture.


And you don't need a Learning Education for getting a high Learning Skill on the Child.

Child Skills are improved based on their Parents Skill and the Guardian and the most important, a Child's Skill Level and Education can not get better than their Guardian, unless of course you have a University in case of the Education Tier.

[River]

Originally posted by Emperor2000:

Child Skills are improved based on their Parents Skill and the Guardian and the most important, a Child's Skill Level and Education can not get better than their Guardian, unless of course you have a University in case of the Education Tier.

So if my Guardian is a lvl 3 diplo dude but genius with a 18 score in diplo, his ward will never go above lvl 3 diplo? it would be better to get him a lvl 4 diplo guardian without genius and perhaps only a 15 diplo score?

Edit: another way to improve the quality of your education is by using your lineage points.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by River:

Originally posted by Emperor2000:

Child Skills are improved based on their Parents Skill and the Guardian and the most important, a Child's Skill Level and Education can not get better than their Guardian, unless of course you have a University in case of the Education Tier.

So if my Guardian is a lvl 3 diplo dude but genius with a 18 score in diplo, his ward will never go above lvl 3 diplo? it would be better to get him a lvl 4 diplo guardian without genius and perhaps only a 15 diplo score?

Edit: another way to improve the quality of your education is by using your lineage points.

Yes, it will not possible for the Child to reach Education Tier 4 with an Education Tier 3 Guardian, without an University or the second Kin Legacy and you having an excellent Court Tutor.

And a Ward can only downgrade 1 Education Tier from the Guardian, so if you appoint a Guardian with Education Tier 4, your Child will most likely get an Education TIer of 3 or 4, but can not fall under Tier 3.

And the skill growth of a Child primarly depends on the base Skill of the Guardian, if your Character has in all Skills, a base Value of 10, your Wards will be more likely to get an base value of 10 in all Skills too, but it is RNG.

[River]

Originally posted by Emperor2000:

And a Ward can only downgrade 1 Education Tier from the Guardian, so if you appoint a Guardian with Education Tier 4, your Child will most likely get an Education TIer of 3 or 4, but can not fall under Tier 3.

Are you 100% sure about this? I am confident that I had a kid who has had a guardian with lvl 4 stewardship from the moment he turned 6 (genius as well), and he only managed a level 2 education in stewardship.
It was this event that sparked my interest in this topic. Why is it that my level 4 genius guardian, with excellent tutor as well as a genius ward only managed a lvl 2 education level? and apparently, you can really do have ♥♥♥♥♥♥ luck. But I might be wrong, and perhaps I did something wrong.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by River:

Originally posted by Emperor2000:

And a Ward can only downgrade 1 Education Tier from the Guardian, so if you appoint a Guardian with Education Tier 4, your Child will most likely get an Education TIer of 3 or 4, but can not fall under Tier 3.

Are you 100% sure about this? I am confident that I had a kid who has had a guardian with lvl 4 stewardship from the moment he turned 6 (genius as well), and he only managed a level 2 education in stewardship.
It was this event that sparked my interest in this topic. Why is it that my level 4 genius guardian, with excellent tutor as well as a genius ward only managed a lvl 2 education level? and apparently, you can really do have ♥♥♥♥♥♥ luck. But I might be wrong, and perhaps I did something wrong.

Did you appoint the right Guardian to the right Child, the UI of CK3 can simply cause sometimes to make an false click.

And they only need 12 points for Education Tier 3, which should be more than do able for an Genius Ward + Genius Guardian(it is a 95% chance for getting Education Points) + Excellent Court Tutor(can give up to 4 extra Education Points).

And don't forget the extra Education Points your Spouse can give your Wards, if the Spouse is learned and/or has the Patronage Focus on the Council.


Or was this a Game in CK2, because in CK2, the Education outcome of a Child are completly random, in CK3, the Education outcome is no longer random.

[River]

I wanted to add one more piece of information on this topic that I feel might be important. The Type of Education of the guardian does not necessarily need to lead to a bad education level if it is not the same.

My player character is a LVL 4 Brilliant Strategist, and was the guardian of my player heir who focused on Stewardship (in accordance with his personality). My PD, being a genius, does have high stewardship and learning stats but no stewardship education. Still though, my heir did end up Midas Touched (LVL 4 steward).

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

For your first two sons, it only really makes sense to educate them yourself.
Because the personality traits are 100x more important than the education, even moreso if you breed the Genius trait into your bloodline. No use in having a 4-star educated heir if he has a poor/sinful personality trait combination.

This is important in the situation mentioned here by Crusher. Even if your PC does not have a corresponding education trait, it pays to educate your heir yourself to pick the right traits and you still might end up with a high level education.

(learned a lot about education traits in this thread and now my court is churning out PhD students one after the other)

[River]

Originally posted by Emperor2000:

Did you appoint the right Guardian to the right Child, the UI of CK3 can simply cause sometimes to make an false click.

And they only need 12 points for Education Tier 3, which should be more than do able for an Genius Ward + Genius Guardian(it is a 95% chance for getting Education Points) + Excellent Court Tutor(can give up to 4 extra Education Points).

And don't forget the extra Education Points your Spouse can give your Wards, if the Spouse is learned and/or has the Patronage Focus on the Council.


Or was this a Game in CK2, because in CK2, the Education outcome of a Child are completly random, in CK3, the Education outcome is no longer random.

Definitely was CK3, but perhaps you're right and I missed something or clicked something wrong.