Landless needs more challenge

[Otterking]

It feels weird having more money and better troops than actual kings. Landless character power needs to be dialed back a bit.

[drake_hound]

I am not sure about the NEXT DLC, cause while it says wandering Nobles, if people do not have RTP how can they enjoy it. so either they made a mistake or is giving away landless for free in next DLC. (which I think people wouldn't mind at all)

And agree Landless is one of the best mechanic especially for CK3, but offcourse it isn't perfect, but that is what people bought DLC for in CK2 for mechanics that could stimulate the imagination, or atleast could improve modding.

Do remember who are hearing more about Landless then the REAL DLC which was the Byzantium Empire and it's government system. (which the die hard fans have been screaming for ages since CK2) that alone means Landless hit the real demographic of CK3 players, who wanted this more then Byzantiume Empire.

[Otterking]

The next dlc says it will add a Wanderer lifestyle that looks like it will flesh out landless with more mechanics and events. I think landless should be a patch feature in the future. It just fits the game so well and should be a part of the core gameplay loop. Spending generations carving out a Kingdom and then the losing it to war and mismanagement by unworthy sons and going back to wandering is the type of game I want to be playing.

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Do remember who are hearing more about Landless then the REAL DLC which was the Byzantium Empire and it's government system. (which the die hard fans have been screaming for ages since CK2) that alone means Landless hit the real demographic of CK3 players, who wanted this more then Byzantiume Empire.

This might ruffle some feathers but to be honest Byzantium doesn't interest me and I think i played only one playthrough there on CK2. Maybe it's cause I'm not that familiar with the history there outside of generalities but it just seemed boring to me. The landless mechanic is the main mechanic of this dlc for me.

[Idlemania]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Originally posted by Otterton:

Bro i hit "end game landless" on my first character. I wanted to play landless because of the challenge of working your way up from nothing. I want to be a humble traveler, bandit, mercenary struggling to survive. Become a knight in a lords army and earn land to my name in a war. This is a wet dream of RP potential and gameplay mechanics that's thrown out the window by the fact a landless character has more wealth and power than landed Kings.

Then go work your way up from nothing again, same way the whole CK3 is played once you hit the stage where there is no more challenge you start again.
The game is made easy mode, cause they are pampering to the older gamers who needs a easier time since they are old.
And the new youth who still has to learn the Mechanics. who find the game way too difficult to learn.

The game hit that market. if you want to RP you can go RP, infact you can mod the game to suit your difficulty. now I said fair is fair, when they had to nerf landless cause it was too easy And I agree.
But it will never hit a level where truely dedicated players who knows every mechanic inside out, can find a challenge without MODs.
Cause then they would dump the demographic they are aiming for.

yeah once you know how to do a eugenics program to create your perfect dynasty and how to make a min maxed baby, the game is pretty close to being your oyster.
one time I made a khan of khan mongol women witch and kingdom after kingdom fell before me.

[Idlemania]

Originally posted by Otterton:

The next dlc says it will add a Wanderer lifestyle that looks like it will flesh out landless with more mechanics and events. I think landless should be a patch feature in the future. It just fits the game so well and should be a part of the core gameplay loop. Spending generations carving out a Kingdom and then the losing it to war and mismanagement by unworthy sons and going back to wandering is the type of game I want to be playing.

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Do remember who are hearing more about Landless then the REAL DLC which was the Byzantium Empire and it's government system. (which the die hard fans have been screaming for ages since CK2) that alone means Landless hit the real demographic of CK3 players, who wanted this more then Byzantiume Empire.

This might ruffle some feathers but to be honest Byzantium doesn't interest me and I think i played only one playthrough there on CK2. Maybe it's cause I'm not that familiar with the history there outside of generalities but it just seemed boring to me. The landless mechanic is the main mechanic of this dlc for me.

yeah i got it for landless as well and im pretty sure their gonna slam it with nerfs and make level 1 contracts harder by requireing characters to be super into stewardship or martial or intrigue.

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Idlemania:

Originally posted by Otterton:

The next dlc says it will add a Wanderer lifestyle that looks like it will flesh out landless with more mechanics and events. I think landless should be a patch feature in the future. It just fits the game so well and should be a part of the core gameplay loop. Spending generations carving out a Kingdom and then the losing it to war and mismanagement by unworthy sons and going back to wandering is the type of game I want to be playing.


This might ruffle some feathers but to be honest Byzantium doesn't interest me and I think i played only one playthrough there on CK2. Maybe it's cause I'm not that familiar with the history there outside of generalities but it just seemed boring to me. The landless mechanic is the main mechanic of this dlc for me.

yeah i got it for landless as well and im pretty sure their gonna slam it with nerfs and make level 1 contracts harder by requireing characters to be super into stewardship or martial or intrigue.

didn't they nerf it already? while still too easy maybe, but they did nerf it, cause day 1 Landless was really super easy mode. but it was to showcase the mechanics.

I think they will never nerf it to be a mindless grind, or else they would have done so already with the base CK3, and ending people playing tall.

And I still have not started Byzantium system, cause too little time currently. even if my must have mods are updated, but if I would start a byzantium system, it probaly be someplace in India again, and see what is broken or not. but basically it sounds like a interesting system.
Cause of Co rulers and Estate.

But landless was the main reason for me personally for this DLC. and while not perfect it didn't fail to impress, just needs more content (but People already said this early access and reviews) my objective view of the landless system is that it was better then expected, I expected a half-baked product again, which I needed to mod tons of stuff.
Instead it was a complete product, which could be modded every way.

Once those mods hit the market and others without coding skills understand it.
The sky is the limit, since you can form parties, have a exile dynasty in landless.
Mod the tent to be something else. etc etc. and make new contract missions and events.

[marchuitt]

Should be a provisions cost similar to a gold cost for ruler armies.

Provisions are somewhat plentiful as the contracts award them (plus the other "ways").

Maybe they should also add provisions as a reward for battles and sieges?

[Otterking]

Originally posted by marchuitt:

Should be a provisions cost similar to a gold cost for ruler armies.

Provisions are somewhat plentiful as the contracts award them (plus the other "ways").

Maybe they should also add provisions as a reward for battles and sieges?

You can already get them from sieges, it's a camp upgrade or lifestyle perk I forget.

[Idlemania]

Originally posted by Otterton:

Originally posted by marchuitt:

Should be a provisions cost similar to a gold cost for ruler armies.

Provisions are somewhat plentiful as the contracts award them (plus the other "ways").

Maybe they should also add provisions as a reward for battles and sieges?

You can already get them from sieges, it's a camp upgrade or lifestyle perk I forget.

lifestyle perk in the martial tree.

[Bishi]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Do remember who are hearing more about Landless then the REAL DLC which was the Byzantium Empire and it's government system. (which the die hard fans have been screaming for ages since CK2) that alone means Landless hit the real demographic of CK3 players, who wanted this more then Byzantiume Empire.

There has always been a historical bias against the Eastern Romans, aka Byzantium aka the Byzantine Empire. I would extend this to Eastern Europe as a whole. Y'all don't want to learn about these places for some reason, let alone the rest of the world, with the exception of darling East Asia. It's not surprising that people would gravitate to the content that is applicable everywhere instead.

[Otterking]

Eastern Europe is probably my most played area. I like playing the Russian kingdoms or the famous Rurik in the earlier start date. For Americans like me i would think most of us like to play where our ancestors came from and mine are mostly Russian. Most people probably relate more to Britain, Vikings, Germans cause those ethnic groups make up alot of Americans and history always talks about them alot.

[Bishi]

Originally posted by Otterton:

Eastern Europe is probably my most played area. I like playing the Russian kingdoms or the famous Rurik in the earlier start date. For Americans like me i would think most of us like to play where our ancestors came from and mine are mostly Russian. Most people probably relate more to Britain, Vikings, Germans cause those ethnic groups make up alot of Americans and history always talks about them alot.

I just hope PDX takes RtP as a learning lesson on how to make DLC appealing for players who have no close cultural proximity to the centerpiece of the DLC. I fear this is the only way we are ever going to get good content for places like Africa, the Steepe/Siberia, and India/Tibet.

[ploedman]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

I do not get it, if you want a challenge, be landed. the whole game is trying to get you landed as soon as possible.
So it isn't about a challenge, it is more about we need to grind more.

That is fine, but don't mistake the two, you created the biggest baddest mercenary army in history. that is fine, time to land them like the Holy Orders in Prussia did. the Catalan Company did, once you hit the mile stone of there is no more challenge for mercenary company, it is time to be landed you can even become a conqueror.

Cause you find itself not challenging anymore. cause you hit the END GAME of landless.
Doesn't mean Paradox needs to create more content for the END GAME grind.
Same story once you are a Emperor and have conquered the known world. (or have set out your goals you wanted to achieve) CK2 and CK3 was just that, once you hit the endgame.
It is time to start a new game, or time to go towards another dynasty member, time to go towards another vassal, see if you can break up your own created Empire.

The Adventurer already has a balance part, now just they explaining why suddenly a horde of 100k Adventure party comes and shake up your known world. (like in CK2)

Agree.
If you want a challenge, play Iron, and change the settings.

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Bishi:

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Do remember who are hearing more about Landless then the REAL DLC which was the Byzantium Empire and it's government system. (which the die hard fans have been screaming for ages since CK2) that alone means Landless hit the real demographic of CK3 players, who wanted this more then Byzantiume Empire.

There has always been a historical bias against the Eastern Romans, aka Byzantium aka the Byzantine Empire. I would extend this to Eastern Europe as a whole. Y'all don't want to learn about these places for some reason, let alone the rest of the world, with the exception of darling East Asia. It's not surprising that people would gravitate to the content that is applicable everywhere instead.

Eh I have traveled every continent aside from South America (Don't know why but never gotten a reason to visit it) I have been to eastern Europe more then once.
Byzantium Empire is really interesting Empire cause it survived where the Roman Empire collapsed. again this Bias is still till today, cause very few want to hear about lost empires.
Anybody interested in Spanish Empire? Anybody interested in the 100th Chinese Empire?
Anybody interested in Maya Empire? a lot of people are still interested in those Empires.

It isn't that we do not want to learn, it is that people blow up a lot of stuff, we have legendary stories about Vlad the Impaler who beaten back the Ottoman Empire by playing by their rules, the rules of terror. instead of being glorified for a short while he was backstabbed.
It was changed into a Vampire and Dracula. oh boy. what a historical twists.
We have Poland stopping the Mongol Horde, while Western Europe was not really interested. did we ever give credit to Poland?
Here even today some country try to change the history by saying Ukraine doesn't excist when Kiyv was the founding father of Russia.

Sorry but this is the story isn't it, I love Spain and Spanish history that is only cause I lived for a while in Spain, if it wasn't for me living in Spain, I would say who cares.
It is the way things are, I am only speaking simply based on FACTS, that landless is more popular then Byzantium Empire, while Byzantium Empire raised huge amount of hype that has been proven to be false. it isn't that I hate Byzantium Empire far from it.
It just the way the numbers and post shows. you can find millions of excuse as fan of Byzantium empire, but it is the way it is.

Same story this game started off as Crusader Kings about medieval Europe, turned into something more beside crusades. I mean why did they ad India? why did they ad the Mongol horde? why did they even ad Africa or even ad Russia. why did they buff up Vikings. cause people showed interest and that is the way it works.

[Bishi]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

...

Little bro, still can't even type out the name properly... You don't have to justify your disinterest, when I already agreed with you on adventurer content being obviously more popular on these boards. I later also expressed my hope on PDX taking this approach with other areas of the world you likely don't care about.

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Bishi:

Originally posted by drake_hound:

...

Little bro, still can't even type out the name properly... You don't have to justify your disinterest, when I already agreed with you on adventurer content being obviously more popular on these boards. I later also expressed my hope on PDX taking this approach with other areas of the world you likely don't care about.

Again assumptions right, you again said I likely care about, if you only care about what you want, it is much better begining.
So stop filling in stuff for others based on your own assumptions. which you have to repeat even NOW.

I would love to have China and Japan Added, cause China they were at the height of their Empire and global power in that Era, and Japan cause they delivered some of the most colorful war units in history.
Ninja's and Samurai (not the ronin that were normally called Samurai's) but Japanese asthetic of their Samurai Armour. see how biased I am, knowing what real history was of Samurai, but still loving the cultural minority of Samurai Armours.
Infact I was one of the few who loved Inca Invasion I found it funny indeed, and people moan about unfair, but the Mongol horde in the east was exactly the same.