Maximizing multiplayer interaction fun

[metafa]

Hi guys. Yesterday I introduced my wife to Stellaris and was pretty impressed how quickly she managed quite well given that she mostly exclusively plays Elders Scrolls Online and comparable games. We played the full package, every DLC, the amount of events especially paired with how much to do were somewhat overwhelming but all in all didn't expect her to manage the depth aspect that well, was self sufficient, all resources in the green,
managing military and diplomacy quite well. Also you mostly start quite far away with little to no actual interaction with each other, surly for early game.

These days I wanna try CK3 with her (IF she let's me - was not easy to get her into Stellaris given how it doesn't look anything like what she's used to, though in the end I think she somewhat liked it), I think there is even more depth to the gameplay and necessity for forward thinking, hoping that will not be too much for someone who usually doesn't need to look at even 1 UI let alone several. Even I haven't mastered the game in every aspect yet, I only started one single game so far, started as a little Baron and couldn't stop playing that to be emperor of a good chunk of Europe for the last 2 hundred years or so. Thus I'm thinking I'm doing OK enough to introduce her. But I view myself still as a rookie / casual player. Too many little details that I still don't have a firm enough grasp on and too little experience in different cultures/starts (in my 1 game I am and have always been cisalpine).

So my question to the hardcore faction here is, what is a good scenario to play in for MP with respects to difficulty, fun and actual interaction with each other? Like 2 more or less equal barons or dukes in the same kingdom? Or one being the vassal of the other? Or 2 different kingdoms/empires - although I'm thinking barons/dukes more to start low and gradually increase the complexity? What time period? What culture/location? In what culture/location is it possible to have her stay a woman ruler thus matrilineal succession (although I know that's a little tricky)? Thinking about what will maximize the fun to not have her curse away all PDX games too soon xD

[Spetsnaz]

Me and 3 of my friends started playing in parts of france and germany as the lowest titles you can hold. Then we started growing bigger and when we were strong enough we dicided that one of us would be emperor in the end. So all of us rebeld and put our friend as king and made the netherlands.

So, tbh for us that was a blast. it was fun to go from nothing to form a big ass empire but the game is not hard if you play like that because you as king or emperor have a vassal that is really big that will not rebel (outside of RP the would never rebel) Now, I personly would say play as norse it is not hard and it has more events because of the flavour pack. Also can be simpler to keep a woman ruler but not sure. I think you can tweak some rules for that tho.

[Hemnlyr]

Originally posted by metafa:

So my question to the hardcore faction here is, what is a good scenario to play in for MP with respects to difficulty, fun and actual interaction with each other? Like 2 more or less equal barons or dukes in the same kingdom? Or one being the vassal of the other? Or 2 different kingdoms/empires - although I'm thinking barons/dukes more to start low and gradually increase the complexity? What time period? What culture/location? In what culture/location is it possible to have her stay a woman ruler thus matrilineal succession (although I know that's a little tricky)? Thinking about what will maximize the fun to not have her curse away all PDX games too soon xD

There are a few things you should be aware of before jumping into multiplayer. If you choose the vassal and liege approach then the vassal can choose to join the war of their liege but the liege can't do much if the vassal is attacked by another vassal. This means that you can cooperate in expanding your realm and putting down rebellions/factions but that multiplayer as a vassal can be frustrating if you start getting picked on. You would probably want to take the role of vassal yourself and have your wife play the liege role.

If you choose the separate realms approach then you will need to periodically renew your alliance if you want to help one another out. Naturally you can use marriages to do this but if one of you chooses to play a diplomat then there is a skill called Defensive Negotiations that you can pick up quite early on to simply negotiate one.

Another thing to consider is that you don't want to be competing for the same territory. For example if one of you plays England and the other plays Scotland then both of you will have a hard time forming an empire.

As for when and where to start I would recommend India, though I would try it in single player first to get a feel for the local situation. There are a wide range of religions to choose from, many of which have equal preference on gender succession, and they are all quite tolerant of one another. I don't know what the situation is in 1066 but in the earlier start there are three kingdoms that have the potential to expand into empires (there are three empire titles with a special decision to merge into one).

Because they start as feudal and are tolerant of one another you cannot simply go on the warpath. Playing as a diplomat and offering vassalage to independent dukes and counts is the fastest way to expand. You will probably have a few years at the start where you are just building up your territory, which can be quite slow, but it may give your wife the chance to navigate around the menus and tool tips.

One last thing I would point out is that if you create your own characters you cannot be of the same dynasty (there may be a mod for this).

[metafa]

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

There are a few things you should be aware of before jumping into multiplayer. If you choose the vassal and liege approach then the vassal can choose to join the war of their liege but the liege can't do much if the vassal is attacked by another vassal. This means that you can cooperate in expanding your realm and putting down rebellions/factions but that multiplayer as a vassal can be frustrating if you start getting picked on. You would probably want to take the role of vassal yourself and have your wife play the liege role.

Good thinking, thx.

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

If you choose the separate realms approach then you will need to periodically renew your alliance if you want to help one another out. Naturally you can use marriages to do this but if one of you chooses to play a diplomat then there is a skill called Defensive Negotiations that you can pick up quite early on to simply negotiate one.

Will that skill stay with me as a dynasty skill or something or do I have to teach it to every successor afterwards?

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

As for when and where to start I would recommend India, though I would try it in single player first to get a feel for the local situation. There are a wide range of religions to choose from, many of which have equal preference on gender succession, and they are all quite tolerant of one another. I don't know what the situation is in 1066 but in the earlier start there are three kingdoms that have the potential to expand into empires (there are three empire titles with a special decision to merge into one).

Because they start as feudal and are tolerant of one another you cannot simply go on the warpath. Playing as a diplomat and offering vassalage to independent dukes and counts is the fastest way to expand. You will probably have a few years at the start where you are just building up your territory, which can be quite slow, but it may give your wife the chance to navigate around the menus and tool tips.

Good to know, what are the main huge differences in playing christian alpine and India? Will any of the vassal mechanic play differently (in my playthough I am also playing the earlier time period)

[metafa]

Originally posted by Spetsnaz:

Me and 3 of my friends started playing in parts of france and germany as the lowest titles you can hold. Then we started growing bigger and when we were strong enough we dicided that one of us would be emperor in the end. So all of us rebeld and put our friend as king and made the netherlands.

Definitely a good idea when my wife has become more familiar with things.

[Hemnlyr]

Originally posted by metafa:

Will that skill stay with me as a dynasty skill or something or do I have to teach it to every successor afterwards?

It's character only, not dynasty.

Originally posted by metafa:

Good to know, what are the main huge differences in playing christian alpine and India? Will any of the vassal mechanic play differently (in my playthough I am also playing the earlier time period)

There are a lot of good potential starts in Europe (personally I like the Holy Roman Empire) but the trouble is that Catholicism is really the only game in town unless you play a viking.

If you try and change religion in Europe then most of the options are hostile to Catholicism so you open yourself up to holy wars and crusades. There are a few exceptions like Orthodox and Insular Christianity but all of them are male dominated. You could take the approach of sticking with Catholicism until you are strong enough to deal with all of your neighbours being hostile.

With the eastern religions there is no head of faith so you won't be able to get gold that way. The vassal mechanics won't change with your choice of religion.

Just to be clear the options in India are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and potentially Taoism, each of which has multiple branches. None of these religions can holy war against one another and marriage is possible between them.

[metafa]

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

If you try and change religion in Europe then most of the options are hostile to Catholicism so you open yourself up to holy wars and crusades. There are a few exceptions like Orthodox and Insular Christianity but all of them are male dominated. You could take the approach of sticking with Catholicism until you are strong enough to deal with all of your neighbours being hostile.

With the eastern religions there is no head of faith so you won't be able to get gold that way. The vassal mechanics won't change with your choice of religion.

Just to be clear the options in India are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and potentially Taoism, each of which has multiple branches. None of these religions can holy war against one another and marriage is possible between them.

Ah yes, thx. Another thing is the matrilineal marriages thing, I think she will want to roleplay successive female rulers, thus is there an option/setting where she can relatively easily? I didn't see any female rulers also in India, and when I create a new character it says: "Difficulties: Faith prefers male rulers" So is there a faith where it isn't from the start or would that have to be created? I also saw that many are/were complaining about a matrilineal succession bug, is that fixed in the meantime? Or is there a mod that still works that irons that out? Is it possible to make the AI not care that she is female and will want to marry males into her house even if they are catholic?

[Hemnlyr]

Originally posted by metafa:

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

If you try and change religion in Europe then most of the options are hostile to Catholicism so you open yourself up to holy wars and crusades. There are a few exceptions like Orthodox and Insular Christianity but all of them are male dominated. You could take the approach of sticking with Catholicism until you are strong enough to deal with all of your neighbours being hostile.

With the eastern religions there is no head of faith so you won't be able to get gold that way. The vassal mechanics won't change with your choice of religion.

Just to be clear the options in India are Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and potentially Taoism, each of which has multiple branches. None of these religions can holy war against one another and marriage is possible between them.

Ah yes, thx. Another thing is the matrilineal marriages thing, I think she will want to roleplay successive female rulers, thus is there an option/setting where she can relatively easily? I didn't see any female rulers also in India, and when I create a new character it says: "Difficulties: Faith prefers male rulers" So is there a faith where it isn't from the start or would that have to be created? I also saw that many are/were complaining about a matrilineal succession bug, is that fixed in the meantime? Or is there a mod that still works that irons that out? Is it possible to make the AI not care that she is female and will want to marry males into her house even if they are catholic?

I don't think there are any female dominated religions, only equal, so you would have to create one.

As for the warning you are receiving it probably depends on where you select. I think if you choose the western/Rajistan area you'll be ok as the ruler starts with equal preference. From the following list you will see that the eastern religions are a bit of a mixed bag:

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Faith#List_of_eastern_faiths

I'm not sure what the matrilineal bug is, I don't think I've come across it.

[metafa]

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

Originally posted by metafa:

Ah yes, thx. Another thing is the matrilineal marriages thing, I think she will want to roleplay successive female rulers, thus is there an option/setting where she can relatively easily? I didn't see any female rulers also in India, and when I create a new character it says: "Difficulties: Faith prefers male rulers" So is there a faith where it isn't from the start or would that have to be created? I also saw that many are/were complaining about a matrilineal succession bug, is that fixed in the meantime? Or is there a mod that still works that irons that out? Is it possible to make the AI not care that she is female and will want to marry males into her house even if they are catholic?

I don't think there are any female dominated religions, only equal, so you would have to create one.

As for the warning you are receiving it probably depends on where you select. I think if you choose the western/Rajistan area you'll be ok as the ruler starts with equal preference. From the following list you will see that the eastern religions are a bit of a mixed bag:

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Faith#List_of_eastern_faiths

I'm not sure what the matrilineal bug is, I don't think I've come across it.

Very helpful, thanks!

[Hemnlyr]

Originally posted by metafa:

I think she will want to roleplay successive female rulers, thus is there an option/setting where she can relatively easily?

I just remembered. If you start as Daura in sub-Saharan Africa you get an choice in the first few months of the game which gets you female preference. Her husband is an allied duke next door.

It is a tribal start though and Daura also has a bad habit of being assassinated early. Try it in single player and see what you think.

[metafa]

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

Originally posted by metafa:

I think she will want to roleplay successive female rulers, thus is there an option/setting where she can relatively easily?

I just remembered. If you start as Daura in sub-Saharan Africa you get an choice in the first few months of the game which gets you female preference. Her husband is an allied duke next door.

It is a tribal start though and Daura also has a bad habit of being assassinated early. Try it in single player and see what you think.

Oh nice, could be what we're looking for. How do I choose her though? I read there is a filter to choose a ruler but don't see it anywhere

EDIT: Ok, found her, she's a featured start, nvm

[metafa]

Originally posted by Hemnlyr:

Originally posted by metafa:

I think she will want to roleplay successive female rulers, thus is there an option/setting where she can relatively easily?

I just remembered. If you start as Daura in sub-Saharan Africa you get an choice in the first few months of the game which gets you female preference. Her husband is an allied duke next door.

It is a tribal start though and Daura also has a bad habit of being assassinated early. Try it in single player and see what you think.

The assassination plot can be avoided if I choose Daura, then instead of the default I create a different female ruler btw. This does not automatically start me as her husband but it's not required.