Whats with all the toxicity?

[Die Dame des Berges]

Why are people already proclaiming the game a failure without playing a second of it?

Why is it wrong to release DLCs? You almost make it sound like its some grave taboo for a company to try and make profit. From the released info, the DLC policy sounds fair - alot of the CK2 dlc elements are already included in the base game - 867 start, norse and Islam religions, way of life, a form of bloodlines, all europe map + india + africa all down to the Nigerian coast + parts of Indochina and Tibet. It looks like they are setting up a DLC that will include full China, new content. Theres no copy-pasting to DLCs, and even if theres some, theres still lots of new stuff in the base game.


What im gonna say now might get be banned but ill just do it:
half of the people who buy legal copies of CKII and EU4 just pirate the DLCS using cream.api. If you are going to whine endlessly about DLCs, atleast be honest. Im sick of people who proclaim they won't buy the game because they are salty for x or y while never having the intention to do it and just pirate.

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

I sincerely believe most people complaining about DLC are in the younger range. I mean people my demographics spends thousands on hobbies, wheter its Golfing, Tabletop games, Scuba diving, Flying and for my part : building an arcade. Grown adults of 30+ yrs with careers is what I would consider my demographics. Now I know Im the only one of my friends and acquaintances who actually spend time on game forums so Im also expecting it would be really rare to see those people in the forums to begin with.

Iv spent 3k$ this year alone to do some work on my arcades, 1,500$ on my backyard on flowers alone. And then I read the forum and I have ( by my own choice) to listen to people tell me that Im stupid to buy a game that has 300$ of DLC in 8 years.... hhm..

I think a big part of it is poverty and maturity combined. And of course they are ALWAYS exceptions. My brother in law is loaded but he wont spend a dime, ever, on anything. But, you know, he doesnt complaint about it and assume his choices.

[Electric]

Dudes every paradox games i have bought from hoi 3 is unfinished and broken as ♥♥♥♥.

You realy think it will be diferent?

SERIOUSLY!

[Die Dame des Berges]

Originally posted by Hobotango:

I sincerely believe most people complaining about DLC are in the younger range. I mean people my demographics spends thousands on hobbies, wheter its Golfing, Tabletop games, Scuba diving, Flying and for my part : building an arcade. Grown adults of 30+ yrs with careers is what I would consider my demographics. Now I know Im the only one of my friends and acquaintances who actually spend time on game forums so Im also expecting it would be really rare to see those people in the forums to begin with.

Iv spent 3k$ this year alone to do some work on my arcades, 1,500$ on my backyard on flowers alone. And then I read the forum and I have ( by my own choice) to listen to people tell me that Im stupid to buy a game that has 300$ of DLC in 8 years.... hhm.. :lunar2019deadpanpig:

I think a big part of it is poverty and maturity combined. And of course they are ALWAYS exceptions. My brother in law is loaded but he wont spend a dime, ever, on anything. But, you know, he doesnt complaint about it and assume his choices.

If you played even 50 hours on the game, you can consider it a good investment.
But paradox games usually offer much more, hundreds and thousands of hours.
Sure, Imperator Rome's release was quite sloppy, but its a game that I personally never cared about and didn't buy.
but CK3 should be their flagship project, and they do seem to make it atleast look like a fair dlc policiy, so this is why I decided to preorder.

[76561198089744614]

It's funny how the same old suspects seem to attract the same kind of toxicity as you call it, EA, Paradox, CA, Bethesda and all those other toxic companies, you know who I'm talking about, the ones who tend to overspend on the PR and marketing side of things while under delivering on the actual product and then overcharging for it.

Nobody I saw said anything against DLC per se, they are talking about paradox DLC and other business practices in particular, and the toxicity with which such comments are met, by overzealous moderation, deletion and locking of threads, the banning of posters and the campaigns waged by the small but dedicated team of suspiciously overenthusiastic online defenders, well maybe they need to take a look at themselves a little bit, before blaming the rest of the world for their problems.

Toxicity begets toxicity and having been stung by the Imperator scam I am one of those who feels unjustly treated by this corporation, and I reserve my right to express those sentiments in a way that breaks no rules on this here public forum.

There are plenty of games out there with far bigger player bases that have barely any toxicity around them at all, others just seem to attract it I guess, maybe if they spent less time and money on trying to convince everyone how great their games are while silencing those who disagree and then focused a little more on actually making them great, well the problem might just go away.

[Electric]

Originally posted by Schadenfreude:

Originally posted by Hobotango:

I sincerely believe most people complaining about DLC are in the younger range. I mean people my demographics spends thousands on hobbies, wheter its Golfing, Tabletop games, Scuba diving, Flying and for my part : building an arcade. Grown adults of 30+ yrs with careers is what I would consider my demographics. Now I know Im the only one of my friends and acquaintances who actually spend time on game forums so Im also expecting it would be really rare to see those people in the forums to begin with.

Iv spent 3k$ this year alone to do some work on my arcades, 1,500$ on my backyard on flowers alone. And then I read the forum and I have ( by my own choice) to listen to people tell me that Im stupid to buy a game that has 300$ of DLC in 8 years.... hhm..

I think a big part of it is poverty and maturity combined. And of course they are ALWAYS exceptions. My brother in law is loaded but he wont spend a dime, ever, on anything. But, you know, he doesnt complaint about it and assume his choices.

If you played even 50 hours on the game, you can consider it a good investment.
But paradox games usually offer much more, hundreds and thousands of hours.
Sure, Imperator Rome's release was quite sloppy, but its a game that I personally never cared about and didn't buy.
but CK3 should be their flagship project, and they do seem to make it atleast look like a fair dlc policiy, so this is why I decided to preorder.

Ok. No one stopped you from buying the game.

If paradox start to test and put most of all the mechanic that the game before had and start to fix them before released. I bet i will stop my (campain of truth).

Plain simple.

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

Originally posted by Schadenfreude:

If you played even 50 hours on the game, you can consider it a good investment.
But paradox games usually offer much more, hundreds and thousands of hours.
Sure, Imperator Rome's release was quite sloppy, but its a game that I personally never cared about and didn't buy.
but CK3 should be their flagship project, and they do seem to make it atleast look like a fair dlc policiy, so this is why I decided to preorder.

Well, the reason I dont pre-order is because I got toasted too many times ( especially by Indies). I decided never to spend money on an unfinished game and especially when you read the fine lines in the contract it says they can change the game to whatever they want, anytime they want, so that puts me off.

Anyway Im not sure what their flagship project it, I think its between CK and HoI. And I also expect a lot from CK3 so all we can do is wait and hope. Too bad it isnt release during the Covid-19 crisis, would keep more people at home haha.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by Hobotango:

I sincerely believe most people complaining about DLC are in the younger range. I mean people my demographics spends thousands on hobbies, wheter its Golfing, Tabletop games, Scuba diving, Flying and for my part : building an arcade. Grown adults of 30+ yrs with careers is what I would consider my demographics. Now I know Im the only one of my friends and acquaintances who actually spend time on game forums so Im also expecting it would be really rare to see those people in the forums to begin with.

Iv spent 3k$ this year alone to do some work on my arcades, 1,500$ on my backyard on flowers alone. And then I read the forum and I have ( by my own choice) to listen to people tell me that Im stupid to buy a game that has 300$ of DLC in 8 years.... hhm..

I think a big part of it is poverty and maturity combined. And of course they are ALWAYS exceptions. My brother in law is loaded but he wont spend a dime, ever, on anything. But, you know, he doesnt complaint about it and assume his choices.

That and most likely many of them have no clue about the life span of the game, they are used (even older users) to games that last a month or two and cost 60 euro + 2-6 dlcs and maybe an expansion and then on to the next game.. They don't understand pdox games are long lasting and tries to enhance and make the games better with massive free patches and yes some expasions (1-2 each year)

Pdox games are also niche, but with HoI4, they have gotten new fans and the streamlined play in HoI4 seems to pull more in. That is also the reason for "not dumbed down" but more streamlined CK3 gameplay. I dare say I think CK3 will be the best selling Pdox games of all times.

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

Originally posted by Hmmmm....:

the campaigns waged by the small but dedicated team of suspiciously overenthusiastic online defender. toxicity begets toxicity

I read your post and understand your point but... Is there really something wrong for a person who enjoy a product, to go to its dedicated public space to talk enthusiastically about that product ? Its THE number one place that is made for this, to attract people who enjoy that product. I would think its pretty normal for us to be here.

What I dont undertand is people who hate something, who vowed never to buy again from that businesses but decide to go to that public space and tell everyone they shouldnt buy X product because they dont like it.

And maybe I dont understand just because Im not like that. I personally vowed against and boycotted a couple of businesses. I dont ever go to their business, I dont try to convince their customers to dislike the product like I do and I dont go around picketing in front and screaming at how bad they are. I simply, calmly take my business elsewhere.

Toxicity begets toxicity, that I agree with. People come here and say they have no intention of buying the game and were all stupid to do so, WILL beget toxicity. There wouldnt be any toxicity to beget to, if toxicity would keep to themselves and let people enjoy themselves on their dedicated platform. No ? isnt this platform made to discuss the game ? and not their political views about the company ? Why not creating a public space that is made to hate on the company instead of going to the one who is made to enjoy the company ?!

[76561198089744614]

Originally posted by Hobotango:

I read your post and understand your point but... Is there really something wrong for a person who enjoy a product, to go to its dedicated public space to talk enthusiastically about that product ?

Is there really anything wrong for a person who did not enjoy a product to voice enthusiastically their disappointment in opposition?

It goes both ways, and Paradox and some of the community likes to forget that, and that is where much of the 'toxicity' is born.

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

Originally posted by Darkie:

I dare say I think CK3 will be the best selling Pdox games of all times.

Wel... I hope not ! hahaha. But what can I say, businesses have to evolve, just like musicians. The Offspring, Greenday, two good punk band that became extremely mainstream pop-punk. I guess thats just how life is.

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

Originally posted by Hmmmm....:

Originally posted by Hobotango:

I read your post and understand your point but... Is there really something wrong for a person who enjoy a product, to go to its dedicated public space to talk enthusiastically about that product ?

Is there really anything wrong for a person who did not enjoy a product to voice enthusiastically their disappointment in opposition?

It goes both ways, and Paradox and some of the community likes to forget that, and that is where much of the 'toxicity' is born.

But this public space is made for people who want to buy the game, want to discuss the game and to get more news about the game. Its a public space MADE for people who enjoy the product. Not a public space made for people who are politically motivated against Paradox.

This is Crusader Kings 3 forum. Not Paradox Headquarters. Do I see anyone ever protesting paradox in front of their buildings ? No. The screaming for changes is happening at the wrong public space. This is not the place for it. Why not create a public space that is entirely made to talk against paradox ? This public space here is to talk about the upcoming game Crusader Kings 3 and specifically designed for those who enjoy it.

[76561198089744614]

Originally posted by Hobotango:

Originally posted by Hmmmm....:

Is there really anything wrong for a person who did not enjoy a product to voice enthusiastically their disappointment in opposition?

It goes both ways, and Paradox and some of the community likes to forget that, and that is where much of the 'toxicity' is born.

It doesnt go both way, simply because this platform here is made to discuss the game, not the political views of the company. Or am I wrong on this ?

Sadly many companies, and not only game developers, have allowed themselves to become politicised and allow politics to influence what they do, this recent politicisation of the corporations themselves is indeed the source of much of the resulting toxicity, it's a great tragedy and is causing very real damage to this and other industries. It is mind blowing that in a forum that is dedicated to a game built upon things like family politics, national politics, the politics of war, the politics of power etc we are not allowed to discuss politics.

Therefore I will avoid the trap.

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

(I deleted that comment and replaced it with another one. So you might want to read my previous comment and answer on that if you feel like it.) For people who are enthousiastic about that said product and I do believe if people want to talk against it, they should use their own dedicated platform. This public space is for people who plan to buy the game and to discuss about it.

People who constantly complaint about it, are the toxic ones, just complaining constantly is toxic behavior in anything. And you look at these people history and theyv been complaining for years, mostly all their post is complainst and insults.. They 100% know they will bring toxic conversations to the plate by bringing their topics into a place that is made to cater to those who enjoy the game and this is what they want too, Some of them are called trolls and they do it on purpose so even if those with true intentions of bringing up problems with the company did created their own platform to talk against it, we, the enthousiastic one, would still have to deal with toxicity from immature trolls.

So...anyway, well have to agree to disagree because those are my thoughts on that.

[Jarimandarijn007]

no clue what cream.api is but everyone is salty because this game costs 50 euros while in my eyes its only worth about 10

[The Former]

Originally posted by Pirate:

Dudes every paradox games i have bought from hoi 3 is unfinished and broken as ♥♥♥♥.

You realy think it will be diferent?

SERIOUSLY!

Either you're lying or we have a very different standard of "unfinished and broken as ♥♥♥♥", because I've bought every Paradox release since HOI3 and was able to finish them all before their first major update went through.

Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.com PvPro.com:

no clue what cream.api is but everyone is salty because this game costs 50 euros while in my eyes its only worth about 10

One, you're within rights to not buy it. If you believe a product isn't worth what they're charging, definitely don't buy it. I'm not sure why that means you should go tell everyone on a forum dedicated to the game that you're not buying it though. When I see a $12 box of protein bars at the convenience store, I don't stand up on the counter and yell "Ladies and gentlemen of the konbini! I am not buying this product, it is asking too much!"

Two, I'm quite curious as to what you've been able to evaluate in a game that hasn't yet been released that leads you to believe it's worth less money than five Dead or Alive 6 skins.