Think I'm done with paradox

[Gauge]

I'm an old paradox fan, and I mean REALLY OLD. I've been around for a long time. I think with CK3, I'm pretty much done. They have lived long enough to see themselves become the thing that we hated. The game releases in september, and there is already paid DLC. Not only that, the DLC has a name and content defined. This many months in advance of release they are already working on a DLC. Why wouldn't you put that into the actual game you haven't released yet.

For me personally, they are trending more and more towards the AAA microtransaction heaven with each and every release. I'm done. I won't be buying this. This is sad too, because I own a lot of their titles and have been a fan of their work for a long time. Guess it's inevitable for studios to continue growing endlessly and expanding revenue streams endlessly. I look forward to the new paradox coming.

[Angybeard82]

Fool me once (Imperator: Rome) shame on you...
Fool me twice, shame on me......
Paradox is the Activision of strategy games now.

[Athmet]

Originally posted by Angybeard82:

Fool me once (Imperator: Rome) shame on you...
Fool me twice, shame on me......
Paradox is the Activision of strategy games now.

Cool story bro !

[Angybeard82]

Originally posted by Athmet:

Originally posted by Angybeard82:

Fool me once (Imperator: Rome) shame on you...
Fool me twice, shame on me......
Paradox is the Activision of strategy games now.

Cool story bro !

Just hang around for my next one.

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Paradox has become a true cancer to gamers

[nelsonnicogame]

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Paradox has become a true cancer to gamers

How?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by nelsonnicogame:

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Paradox has become a true cancer to gamers

How?

There's no point in engaging with posters who express themselves using such obviously extreme terms which border on the offensive. If they merely stated that they hated Paradox games, there might be a very slight chance of having a discussion with them. But when they say ' true cancer', they're beyond reasoning with. They are looking to provoke a response from folks and if you bite, you make them happy.

Edit to add: To be fair to you, I haven't really learned this lesson myself ;)

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Originally posted by nelsonnicogame:

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Paradox has become a true cancer to gamers

How?

Because they are one of the biggest gaming companies in the world, and what is their nom de plume? crazy amounts of dlc, adding up to hundreds of dollars for a single game.

They are also influencing other companies to emulate their style.




And fanboys will say "they deserve to get paid for their work." But this goes beyond getting paid. Paradox is doing more than fine financially. They own how many developers now?

Paradox is just about extracting as much money from their customers as is possible, using exploitive psychology akin to gambling addictions.

It saddens me that their way is becoming "the way"

[RodHull]

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Paradox is just about extracting as much money from their customers as is possible, using exploitive psychology akin to gambling addictions.

It saddens me that their way is becoming "the way"

My friend you are confusing micro transactions when linked to loot boxes with DLC. They are very different business practices. MTX and Loot boxes do indeed prey on the same impulses that gambling does, DLC has nothing to with that reward loop at all.

[Athmet]

Originally posted by RodHull:

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Paradox is just about extracting as much money from their customers as is possible, using exploitive psychology akin to gambling addictions.

It saddens me that their way is becoming "the way"

My friend you are confusing micro transactions when linked to loot boxes with DLC. They are very different business practices. MTX and Loot boxes do indeed prey on the same impulses that gambling does, DLC has nothing to with that reward loop at all.

I have seen some PDX anti-DLC crusader that would like to push the narrative that DLC are the same as MTX and loot boxes.... I do not believe reason is really what matter to them.

I mean:

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Because they are one of the biggest gaming companies in the world

https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-25-companies-game-revenues/ - but yea sure my dude, one of the biggest gaming companies !!! I am sure PDX would like to happen but they are not there yet...

[RodHull]

Worth noting how many of that list do not openly support modding or mod communities. And in some cases actively prevent modding of their games.

[t-blud]

The choice is yours.

You can buy the basic model or the one with built in sat nav and a heated rear window.

Better still you can buy the basic model and for a reasonable fee you can have a heated rear window and sat nav fitted at a later date ....if you so wish.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Paradox is huge and dominant in the strategy gaming business world.

Well no they aren't huge or dominant. Large yes but not one of the biggest by some distance.

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Nickel and diming microtransactions are similar to gambling in that they tempt the brain into thinking ("oh it's just 2.99" and leading to people spending crazy amount of money on stuff like hats.

Thats not how that reward loop works, Ubisoft (or was it EA) should know they patented ways to exploit it. It works by offering you something you really really want, a rare loot drop or skin, and then packaging it in with 100 other pieces of garbage you don't want and lowering the chance to receive the good thing to like 0.01% so you have to buy all the crap things many times over to even stand a chance of getting the good thing. Its particularly effective against those pre-disposed to gambling cause it taps the same reward centre of just having 'one more spin' on the roulette wheel (or whatever their particular poison is)

DLC is just what it is, it has no relationship to gambling at all, that you think it does shows how much you misunderstand both issues and have conflated two business practices that have little relationship to one another.

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

(And paradox is especially malicious in how they switch back and forth from cosmetic microtransactions, to transactions containing actual gameplay content which is fragmented and sold, bit by bit, for far more than it is really worth).

Malicious? Sorry what now, are you suggesting people are so moronic they are fooled into buying clearly labelled and advertised cosmetic content because they think its a full content dlc?

The splitting of the dlc is (was it got stopped largely cause of people moaning about it) a good thing it mean if i wanted I could buy the Swords of Islam pack and not pay for the cosmetic additions, now Im forced to buy both if I want the content.

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

And I'll just close by reminding you of the Conclave Content Pack dlc

Not to be confused with the conclave dlc. The conclave content pack dlc, sold separately.

I'll let you warm up for the mental acrobatics needed to defend that.

No need for mental acrobatics (or what we like to call logical rational thinking)

It offers consumer choice, period.

I mean you aren't so naive as to believe that when they package those together they are cheaper are you? Cause assuming you aren't then its clearly preferable to sell them separately.

[The Doctor]

We need to keep in mind that while it is definitely true that Paradox are not one of the biggest game companies in the world (unless you really expand the set to include it so as to make the superlative categorisation worthless of course) Paradox definitely is a mover-shaker though.

Their post-release support model has influenced other much bigger game studios. Firaxis announced a whole year of DLC because they had seen how many folks want their games supported in this fashion. It will include free updates for folks who don't buy the conent. Does that sound familiar to anyone? Of course, it's a pretty horrible bastardisation of the PDS plan but their influence is there for us all to see.

Likewise, I have been playing Paradox games for decades now and I was a big admirer of their developer diaries. We can see other studios taking up this marketing model as well.

And they use Youtubers with a lot of reach to show off their games whenever there is a new game or DLC which brings in a lot of new folks who hadn't seen the game before. Perhaps that's not a Paradox exclusive move but it is one of their signature marketing moves regardless.

So yes, Paradox is influential beyond its size and profitability and that's why they get all this hate both from within their exiting fanbase who claim they have had enough of the long term development supported by DLC and also from without. There are plenty of folks who H-A-T-E DLC with a passion and consider PDS to be the worst. You'll know them if you frequent other discussion boards. ;)

[The Doctor]

Interesting. I'm old enough to remember a time when there was no DLC. Back in the 80's, we bought games on cassette tapes and I don't remember even getting patches for those games, never mind expansions. Of course, that was due to hardware limitations. Games were not stored on Hard drives but on RAM only. Hard drives would change that.

In the 90's, we started seeing patches distributed to us via computer game magazines. But I honestly can't recall paid-for DLC then either.

The first game I can remember buying something that could be categorised as 'DLC' for was Play the World which was an expansion for Civilization 3 released in 2001, (same year as EU2 was released but it didn't get any DLC). Now I openly admit that I might have forgotten something earlier so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that count. (I bought Civ 2 as a complete bundle so that may have been the first)

So if you view DLC as an evil, despicable practice we may tentatively identify 2001 as being when the 'rot' set in and it wasn't Paradox leading the way either. :D

[dov5x]

If a game is good and have replay ability, Then paying for a DLC is pretty reasonable too me. I think my problem is that Imperator had so many bad reviews. And Paradox is asking us to pre-order without really showing us the game. Yes they have showed some stuff but only 6 minutes of actual play. So is not done!. Which is find but why ask for a pre-order then? Why not put it up for early access then. It looks, sounds, good but how does it play?