So many people struggle with legitimacy?

[Risen Wukong]

I logged into my more known profile and I was checking up the games logic for legitimacy and came across literally an entire online catalogue of people struggling with it since there was so many so I thought I'd explain it for people as a lot of people seem to be having their games ruined by not understanding it.

Of course we'll go off legitimacy in real life since it goes directly into the game the same way but using alternative measures for game logic.

Legitimacy is a entities right to rule I said entity because in real life this can be more than one person for example the leader of a university would have legitimacy for their right to run the education of the university itself. Of course it's way less prevalent in modern times. As more modern times governance in most countries has fallen into a "secrecy" type of governments ruling, Which is obvious you can't run a country in real life going completely by the book of morality that's impossible due to the number of population.

In real life though I've read many books on how past kings would obtain popular opinion in real life and many of then obtained it by being equal to their people instead of being above them meaning they would undertake duties that would otherwise be beneath royalty an example would be joining the hunting party to gather food or joining the bishops in their faiths towards the pope both of which exist in the game as hunting and pilgrimage.

Legitimacy just like real life was very hard to obtain and very hard to keep I mean in real life all it took was one guy to accuse you of a sin of your faith and boom you'd instantly lose half your support for your right to rule.

So if your struggling with legitimacy in the early game your supposed too lol as your character or lineage is unlikely actually royal you could hold the title king in 1066 as a starting count but that doesn't make you a royal ruler. That is what the royal court is for and also your gold.

In real life Kings would undertake hunts even as regularly as once a month, In the game for proper pacing your expected to do it at least once every 3 years. Hence why the game sighting bonus lasts 3 years.

So in a 30 year period of your character you should have at least undertaken 10 hunts I think that's why Paradox made the hunt mechanic less boring compared to CK2 with travel and hunter traits etc it's a lot more interesting. (If only they could make piety interesting 😅)

Here is a list of ways kings in real life kept up legitimacy and I will include how this translates into the game for you so you don't have too.

1. Joining the hunting party (hunts)
2. Eating with subjects from peasants to high born (feasts)
3. Escorting or joining bishops to temples or places of worship (pilgrimage)
4. Dealing with problems in a humane way (releasing prisoners for no money, settling wars correctly etc)
5. Becoming A Royal Lineage done mostly by marriage or long family reigns IRL (Royal Court DLC in game by holding court)
6. People who are more attractive (yeah I'm actually not joking on this one back in those days being good looking could make you a well loved king) (beautiful trait in game)
7. Being a good person (traits like just, diplomat, generous etc)
8. Your age (the longer you live the ore legitimacy your family earns creating a more famous family over many generations, People who die young just like real life where considered weak which actually affects legitimacy IRL and In-game)
9. Creating titles and handing them out to people of your culture and religion (same as in-game)

Legitimacy is not a stat you can affect very quickly your not supposed to lol your right to rule isn't really based on a 1 character system, Your entire family lineage is responsible for it. So if your being evil or a tyrant or greedy etc don't expect your sons to have an easy time to convince people their a better person than you where in game lol just like real life a son usually has to bear the weight of the father's choices just like your son has to bear yours lol again less prevalent in modern times but still valid.

Anyway I hope this doesn't bug anyone and I hope it helped you understand how legitimacy works in real life and the game and how it is a collective effort between your whole family tree rather than just one person.

I've had games of CK3 before where I've had children born famous with max legitimacy the game gives you hundreds of years of playing time for a reason ^^ anyway I hope this was helpful have a good one.

[Nimbusᴼᴸᴳᴵ]

It's not that deep bro

[daxter]

Originally posted by James Cameron:

It's not that deep bro

He's just doing a write up, it was lengthy, but did have some helpful tips. The only thing you really need to do is spam funerals, at least that's what I do. The last part of the funeral event gives you like 100 points I think?

[Bordric]

Nah I don't struggle with it really, legend is a huge gainer just takes a while.

[Hari Mullato]

TL;TR
Just use the given mechanics wich gives you legitimacy points.

[CrUsHeR]

I don't think many people have a problem understanding the mechanic.
Many people do instead have a problem with how the mechanic is implemented.
Examples:


1. Losing battles costs Legitimacy. Winning battles does not gain any.
So obviously there is no inherent balance to this.

2. Winning wars of aggression gives legitimacy. This makes no sense, an usurper and oppressor of foreign peoples is never legitimate. A feudal liege is supposed to defend the realm, that's why his subjects agree on vassalage. Thus, only the victory in defensive wars should gain legitimacy instead.

3. Cultures with a strict history of producing their heirs with slave concubines and other lowborns (like the Abbasids) should under no circumstances lose legitimacy from doing what they should be doing. In fact, marrying off your daughter to some random Emir or even foreigner would be shameful and thus reduce legitimacy.

4. The mechanic affects all players regardless of DLC ownership, but only the Legends of the Dead DLC offers additional options to gain legitimacy. This makes it de facto a "pay2win" mechanic.

5. With a positive balance, high legitimacy gives too strong buffs. Take any acceptance formula you had before, "your high legitimacy" can unlock things which shouldn't be possible. In turn, if legitimacy is low (like for NPC rulers) they can't even get anyone married. It is poorly balanced against existing game mechanics.

[Loken]

Yep. I would also add all peasants across the globe blaming the ruler for the plague in the same monty pythonesque way. All cultures condemning asking your children to become monks or holy order members, even those with monastic traditions.
It's designed as a small side (one could even say dlc-locked) feature with no nuance, not as a core mechanic.

But it nicely complements levies being represented as a single peasant-with-pitchfork unit type. Every time your legitimacy drops it's one of these guys doing "I didn't vote for you", probably.

One funeral to rule them all.

[identity]

Legitimacy is just another form of stablity, and the medieval ages was hardly stable. Losing wars often meant rebellion, so that's what legitimacy signifies. If you suck as a ruler, people don't want you as a ruler. Empires have a bigger deficit to fill, but thats part of the challenge of the game. I'm hardly an expert at this game and I have practically zero problems managing legitimacy.

[Novia]

The fact that burying some random person is worth more than generations of successful leadership (as in, worth anything at all) problem solving and networking with your fellows, or fending off foreign invaders in case of a war, is just mind-boggling.

The fact ways to lose legitimacy are so much more numerous and harder hitting, like even a bastard child to a known mistress was -50 per kid, is likewise just as baffling. If you wanted to railroad landed gameplay any more obviously, look no further than the legitimacy mechanic.

CrUsHeR covered basically the most critical points, the implementation is terrible, the interaction with existing systems is lacking. This wasn't a bad idea on paper, but it needs way more work to be anything other than the Scrappy Mechanic trope. I shouldn't be actually wishing for peasants to see comets by contrast.

So basically, it just simply requires far more nuance than currently exists. It might get revisited down the road same way Stellaris DLC did, but who knows.

[Tommy_Cooker]

I wouldn't mind if losing battles cost legitimacy, if I wasn't losing battles simply because my allies stand there and don't help.

[Mr.M]

The best part? Losing wars DOES NOT lose you Legitimacy.

You can literally just surrender to anyone, they get 50-500 legitimacy meanwhile you lose nothing (outside the wargoal)

[Abacus]

I think is more, people must be maxed with everyone, at all times.

[Hussar]

Originally posted by Dice:

So in a 30 year period of your character you should have at least undertaken 10 hunts I think that's why Paradox made the hunt mechanic less boring compared to CK2 with travel and hunter traits etc it's a lot more interesting. (If only they could make piety interesting 😅)

Thank you for the write up, and it is greatly appreciated.

However, doing 10 hunts in a 30 year period, costs a fortune ... at least what I have found in my playing of the game ... to date. Unless there is a DLC that reduces the costs of feasts and hunts.

Maybe when you develop an economic engine, it is easier ... but the first few hundred years it is tough to do. :)

[dwarfpcfan]

I honestly just find so many of the negatives to legitimacy so ridiculous. Why as a duke in the middle of lithuania with 0 vassals do any of the peasants care that I married a peasant. I have 0 vassals, I'm the ruler I'm choosing a woman from my own people and elevating her to nobility. I'm basically validating my tribe by doing this, yet the peasantry loses opinion of me?

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Hussar, I don't have DLCs and you can reduce hunt and feast costs a lot with buildings. My hunt which is supposed to cost around 500 gold in 1250 actually cost 230 gold. Pilgrimage is more costly, but its benefits are so huge that it is worth the investment. Plus, getting all three traits is pretty good to improve your relations with others.

[Otterking]

I honestly never even pay attention to legitimacy and end up having it maxed by second or third ruler. It's a non mechanic.