Can't ally my cousin

[Cybot]

This is just dumb...

My character died and i'm playing as the son.

I can ally with my uncle in law, the duke of East Anglia.
I can ally with my aunt, the duchess of Mercia.
I can ally with my brother, the duke of Hwicce.

I can't ally with my cousin, the duke of Powys. Even though he is betrothed to my sister and his mother is my aunt.

How does that make sence???
I can ally my uncle in law (not blood relative) and my aunt but not her son, my cousin.

And now some big duchy is waging a war against him and I can't help him out...

[Rex is back, baby!]

If I understood correctly,
close family vs. extended family.
Cousins are considered extended.

[Purest Warrior]

Originally posted by The Rextinguished Gentleman:

If I understood correctly,
close family vs. extended family.
Cousins are considered extended.

Actually uncles and aunt should be considered extended family, as well, but I've noticed that I am able to negotiate alliances with them, so I am not sure it follows the exact rules for close vs. extended family.

Regarding OPs problem, cousins are one step further removed, so they are definitely extended family and thus not eligible for blood alliances.

[CrUsHeR]

This is what the wiki says about negotiated alliances, which should be the same as marriage alliance rules

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Alliance#Negotiating_alliances

So parents, siblings and children can always negotiate an alliance because they are directly related within their immediate family.

IIRC - you also should be able to negotiate an alliance within your own uncle/nephew range, so the wiki doesn't seem to be correct. These are as close related as half-siblings and parents, after all. While cousins are beyond the limit.

For alliances based on marriage ties, the idea is that the alliance partners must not be further connected than 3 steps of relation.


Example of valid alliance with 3 steps:

You > Your son >> Other ruler's daughter > Other ruler
You > Your brother > Your brother's daughter (niece) >> Other ruler
You > Your son > Your son's daughter >> Other ruler

Example of invalid alliance with 4+ steps:

You > Your brother > Your niece >> Other ruler's son > Other ruler
You > Your father > Your father's brother (uncle) > Your uncle's daughter >> Other ruler



This also should work the same for negotiated alliances if the marriages exist.
Just note that with the death of your ruler, the total steps of relationship may shift one degree closer or further away.

Because for example if the marriage was based on your old ruler's niece to another ruler, she would be your new ruler's cousin and thus excluded from marriage alliances.

In turn, if a marriage was made for example between your heir and another ruler's aunt or niece, the death of your ruler brings them one tier closer and thus they should be able to negotiate.

[Cybot]

Originally posted by Purest Warrior:

Originally posted by The Rextinguished Gentleman:

If I understood correctly,
close family vs. extended family.
Cousins are considered extended.

Actually uncles and aunt should be considered extended family, as well, but I've noticed that I am able to negotiate alliances with them, so I am not sure it follows the exact rules for close vs. extended family.

Regarding OPs problem, cousins are one step further removed, so they are definitely extended family and thus not eligible for blood alliances.

But he is betrothed to my sister,

I was playing as the dad, marrying my daughter to the guy and got an alliance
Then I died and played as my son, whose sister (the daughter) is betrothed to my cousin but I lost the alliance.

If I break the betrothal and re-betroth them, my sister and my cousin I gain back the alliance. So seems kind of like a bug or oversight :(

[Purest Warrior]

What happens if you wait until they're properly married? Can you negotiate an alliance then?

[Cybot]

Originally posted by Purest Warrior:

What happens if you wait until they're properly married? Can you negotiate an alliance then?

hmm, possibly, not sure. I ended up cancelling the betrothal and re betrothing them. But i'll try next time

[identity]

Originally posted by Cybot:

But he is betrothed to my sister

Alliances don't form from betrothals until the marriage is complete.

[mikemonger]

If he's betrothed to your sister there should already be an alliance?

[identity]

Originally posted by mikemonger:

If he's betrothed to your sister there should already be an alliance?

You don't get an alliance from the act of setting up a betrothal, you get the alliance when the couple marries. If it takes 10 years for someone to come of age, then it will be 10 years before the alliance is in effect.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by id:

Originally posted by mikemonger:

If he's betrothed to your sister there should already be an alliance?

You don't get an alliance from the act of setting up a betrothal, you get the alliance when the couple marries. If it takes 10 years for someone to come of age, then it will be 10 years before the alliance is in effect.

Betrothals definitely give an alliance. That's like half the fun of it.

Like getting that emergency alliance when you betroth your 1 year old daughter to some 89 year old neighboring king.

[CrUsHeR]

And BTW - what you cannot do with betrothals, is to negotiate an alliance based on it. Like when the matchmaking actor of the betrothal has died.

In that case you need to wait until the betrothal gets turned into a marriage, which can potentially be *never* if the foreign partner is in prison.

[Purest Warrior]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

And BTW - what you cannot do with betrothals, is to negotiate an alliance based on it. Like when the matchmaking actor of the betrothal has died.

In that case you need to wait until the betrothal gets turned into a marriage, which can potentially be *never* if the foreign partner is in prison.

I think we have the answer right there.