Crusader Kings III

Crusader Kings III

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diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 3:36
Horrible Inheritance Mechanic Ruining My Games
Imagine playing with a Queen. You marry matrillineally and have a son. Then husband dies, you remarry, you have son N2. Then you die and play with son n1 of course. Now notice who is your heir. You would expect it to be your little half brother right? He is your mother's son, Prince of your Kingdom. But NO. Just no. Your heir will be your father's closest kin. Maybe an older half brother with zero relation to your kingdom or even your dynasty (your are mom's dynasty remember?) or even some uncle or cousin not related to all your previous monarchs. so if you die is just game over. If this happens to a vassal a random guy not related to the previous ruling family would became your new vassal.

This ruins the game for me everytime this happens. It is just so meaningless having a cousin succeeded to a ancestral throne being 0 related to that throne previous holders when you have a half brother being the fully rightful heir.

This is like Cersei getting the Iron Throne just because she was Tommen's mother. This would be like Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh getting the throne if Queen Elizabeth died and then their children died too. It just an horrible bug. And even worse, this didn't happen in CK2. Then it was just perfect inheritance mechanics.

PLEASE somebody do something. please...´
(posted in workshop discussion too)
最后由 diogobigateixeira 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:12
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条,共 41 条留言
armyissue69 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 3:46 
Jeez. I see so often simple lack of understanding. Easy fix, succession law. Even easier fix, absolute crown authority (if early and tribal), designate heir, then drop the crown down a step or two. I mean, there are so many solutions. as Child N1 AND a succession law, designate half bro to succeed. I see rants all the time just showcasing the rant of someone lacking knowledge. If I were you, I would delete my post and get back to learning.
mb3 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 3:52 
I have zero idea how the inheritance system works either. I often see a king with a child and someone else is the heir... Or in an event that just happened to me. I found a duchy ruled by a woman and her heir was her sister, so I got married to her sister thinking i'd kill the first one and take over with my dynasty. Right before I could kill her she got married and had a kid so he became the heir, so naturally I kill the husband, kid, and her thinking the sister would take over like she was supposed to before?? Nope, it went to some unrelated guy who was the regent to the kid before he died. No idea how that works.
diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 3:58 
引用自 armyissue69
Jeez. I see so often simple lack of understanding. Easy fix, succession law. Even easier fix, absolute crown authority (if early and tribal), designate heir, then drop the crown down a step or two. I mean, there are so many solutions. as Child N1 AND a succession law, designate half bro to succeed. I see rants all the time just showcasing the rant of someone lacking knowledge. If I were you, I would delete my post and get back to learning.
Bro no need to be mean. I've almost 3000 hours in this ♥♥♥♥ so calm down and listen: This is not just about my character but also my vassals. It totally breaks game immersion makes no sense and is very ahistorical. As I said it worked so well in CK2 and it probably isnt so hard to fix so I just wish paradox would do something. There's also other issues like this in the matter of inheritance: Eunuch son makes grandchildren sired previously also to be disinherited.

About your recommendations sorry but I play this game because I like history and I don't know about you but having a 11 to 14th century France with Elective Sucession is a sin to my eyes I could never ignore.
I also recommend you read mb3 answer and see the perfect example he just gave
最后由 diogobigateixeira 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:06
diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:04 
引用自 mb3
I have zero idea how the inheritance system works either. I often see a king with a child and someone else is the heir... Or in an event that just happened to me. I found a duchy ruled by a woman and her heir was her sister, so I got married to her sister thinking i'd kill the first one and take over with my dynasty. Right before I could kill her she got married and had a kid so he became the heir, so naturally I kill the husband, kid, and her thinking the sister would take over like she was supposed to before?? Nope, it went to some unrelated guy who was the regent to the kid before he died. No idea how that works.
Exactly!!! Thanks for giving a perfect example. In that situation where the aunt descendent from all previous rulers should be the heir but instead the child's paternal family inherits a title they have nothing to do with. Sometimes they could have a completely different culture or even already hold foreign vassals, leading to land loss.
最后由 diogobigateixeira 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:14
jpcerutti 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:04 
引用自 mb3
I have zero idea how the inheritance system works either. I often see a king with a child and someone else is the heir... Or in an event that just happened to me. I found a duchy ruled by a woman and her heir was her sister, so I got married to her sister thinking i'd kill the first one and take over with my dynasty. Right before I could kill her she got married and had a kid so he became the heir, so naturally I kill the husband, kid, and her thinking the sister would take over like she was supposed to before?? Nope, it went to some unrelated guy who was the regent to the kid before he died. No idea how that works.

That is usually the result of cultural succession law. You have to puzzle out how the inheritance will fall if it is based on popularity, or prestige, or power instead of strict familial lineage. Is also the reason why HRE looks like a crazy patchwork of rebellions every time they die - which also can be fun to play.
diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:10 
引用自 jpcerutti
引用自 mb3
I have zero idea how the inheritance system works either. I often see a king with a child and someone else is the heir... Or in an event that just happened to me. I found a duchy ruled by a woman and her heir was her sister, so I got married to her sister thinking i'd kill the first one and take over with my dynasty. Right before I could kill her she got married and had a kid so he became the heir, so naturally I kill the husband, kid, and her thinking the sister would take over like she was supposed to before?? Nope, it went to some unrelated guy who was the regent to the kid before he died. No idea how that works.

That is usually the result of cultural succession law. You have to puzzle out how the inheritance will fall if it is based on popularity, or prestige, or power instead of strict familial lineage. Is also the reason why HRE looks like a crazy patchwork of rebellions every time they die - which also can be fun to play.
No it isn't that. You can test what he is saying I swear. Just choose a female ruler, marry matrilineally have a child, then die and look who is the heir. It is the dad, who is not even from your dynasty and has no relation to the previous rulers of your realm.

Imagine playing Urraca Countess of Zamora. You marry some lowborn guy. you have a child and then Urraca dies. The heir is now the lowborn father, and not the child's uncles Sancho or Alfonso
HYPNOTOAD 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:48 
> Your heir will be your father's closest kin
Lol well..,

You married matrineally but you are probably under only male inheritance law. Unless there are a only living female, the next closest male kin will get the title.

This wouldnt happen if your succession law was equal rights or female-only....

Dont worry you will get mad again once you willingly and naively marry into basque or nubian queens, or setup your child as heir to an elective scandinavian throne.
armyissue69 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:48 
引用自 mb3
I have zero idea how the inheritance system works either. I often see a king with a child and someone else is the heir... Or in an event that just happened to me. I found a duchy ruled by a woman and her heir was her sister, so I got married to her sister thinking i'd kill the first one and take over with my dynasty. Right before I could kill her she got married and had a kid so he became the heir, so naturally I kill the husband, kid, and her thinking the sister would take over like she was supposed to before?? Nope, it went to some unrelated guy who was the regent to the kid before he died. No idea how that works.

Sometimes the "heir" showing is jacked, the real way to check the heir on a title is to look at the title itself. So, example that you provided, you look at the duchy title and see the succession of that title AND often, once that was looked at, the actual heir will update on their portrait.
jpcerutti 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:56 
引用自 diogobigateixeira
引用自 jpcerutti

That is usually the result of cultural succession law. You have to puzzle out how the inheritance will fall if it is based on popularity, or prestige, or power instead of strict familial lineage. Is also the reason why HRE looks like a crazy patchwork of rebellions every time they die - which also can be fun to play.
No it isn't that. You can test what he is saying I swear. Just choose a female ruler, marry matrilineally have a child, then die and look who is the heir. It is the dad, who is not even from your dynasty and has no relation to the previous rulers of your realm.

Imagine playing Urraca Countess of Zamora. You marry some lowborn guy. you have a child and then Urraca dies. The heir is now the lowborn father, and not the child's uncles Sancho or Alfonso

In that case, the title would & does pass both by familial and male preference. Her original heir is her liege (which is where it reverts if you have no heir at all), and her child's father is half of the child's parent - both related AND male. He is the closest male relative to the new ruler. There is no special rule for the inheritance of the duchy, kingdom, or culture.
最后由 jpcerutti 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 4:59
diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 5:54 
引用自 armyissue69
引用自 mb3
I have zero idea how the inheritance system works either. I often see a king with a child and someone else is the heir... Or in an event that just happened to me. I found a duchy ruled by a woman and her heir was her sister, so I got married to her sister thinking i'd kill the first one and take over with my dynasty. Right before I could kill her she got married and had a kid so he became the heir, so naturally I kill the husband, kid, and her thinking the sister would take over like she was supposed to before?? Nope, it went to some unrelated guy who was the regent to the kid before he died. No idea how that works.

Sometimes the "heir" showing is jacked, the real way to check the heir on a title is to look at the title itself. So, example that you provided, you look at the duchy title and see the succession of that title AND often, once that was looked at, the actual heir will update on their portrait.
Yeah I have noticed would you are talking about but that is not the case. This has happened to me lots of times and I've talked with other people about this and seen some discussions in other forums.

https://ibb.co/PwXJpKy This link shows a clear example of the issue
最后由 diogobigateixeira 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 6:30
diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 6:05 
引用自 jpcerutti
引用自 diogobigateixeira
No it isn't that. You can test what he is saying I swear. Just choose a female ruler, marry matrilineally have a child, then die and look who is the heir. It is the dad, who is not even from your dynasty and has no relation to the previous rulers of your realm.

Imagine playing Urraca Countess of Zamora. You marry some lowborn guy. you have a child and then Urraca dies. The heir is now the lowborn father, and not the child's uncles Sancho or Alfonso

In that case, the title would & does pass both by familial and male preference. Her original heir is her liege (which is where it reverts if you have no heir at all), and her child's father is half of the child's parent - both related AND male. He is the closest male relative to the new ruler. There is no special rule for the inheritance of the duchy, kingdom, or culture.
Yeah you perfectly described the problem. But what you describe is not how it should be. It makes no sense a guy who doesn't belong to a centuries old line of rulers to ascend the throne. Like I said it would be like relatives of Prince Philip assumed the throne if Charles and everyone in the royal family dies. It isnt like that of course descendents of the Queen's sister would get the throne, not of Philip's.

Now your probably thinking, that is a 21st century example how do you want to compare it to CK3?
So let's go into history:

Margaret, Queen of Scotland from 1286 to 1290. Inherited Scotland from her mother's father, Alexander III, but died childless shortly after. Her father, the King of Norway had no chance of inheriting Scotland. Instead a civil war broke out between relatives of her grandfather, the mentioned Alexander III of Scotland. In CK3 the King of Norway would get the throne.

Baldwin V, King of Jerusalem from 1185 to 1186. Inherited Jerusalem from his uncle Baldwin IV the Leper, who skipped his sister Sybilla making her son, his nephew, heir directly. Baldwin V died shortly after and Sybilla and her second husband became Queen and King Consort of Jerusalem. In CK3 in Baldwin V death the throne would go to Baldwin V's paternal uncle, an italian count with zero relation to the previous line of monarchs of Jerusalem.
最后由 diogobigateixeira 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 6:18
diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 6:14 
引用自 HYPNOTOAD
>
You married matrineally but you are probably under only male inheritance law. Unless there are a only living female, the next closest male kin will get the title.

This wouldnt happen if your succession law was equal rights or female-only....

I don't think you totally understood the issue as I described it. Even if the father is dead and only has sisters, HIS sister WILL inherit and not your mother's sister, the one who is from your dynasty and who descends from all your previous character. This issue is not related to gender.

https://ibb.co/PwXJpKy Take a look at this print, it might help you understand what I mean

Btw in paradox wiki it is said:
"If the ruler has no living descendants, the oldest sibling is chosen. If this sibling is dead, a living heir is sought among their descendants in the same manner. If lateral branches provide no candidate, the primary parent* is chosen. If they're dead, a candidate is sought among their siblings, etc.

*the father in a patrilineal marriage, the mother in a matrilineal marriage"

That * is completly false! You can quickly test this as Urraca of Zamora as I said.
And even the * being true wouldnt be enough, titles should follow their rightful line! Above I gave to historical examples I recommend you to read if you wish.
最后由 diogobigateixeira 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 6:31
jpcerutti 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 6:53 
引用自 diogobigateixeira
引用自 jpcerutti

In that case, the title would & does pass both by familial and male preference. Her original heir is her liege (which is where it reverts if you have no heir at all), and her child's father is half of the child's parent - both related AND male. He is the closest male relative to the new ruler. There is no special rule for the inheritance of the duchy, kingdom, or culture.
Yeah you perfectly described the problem. But what you describe is not how it should be. It makes no sense a guy who doesn't belong to a centuries old line of rulers to ascend the throne. Like I said it would be like relatives of Prince Philip assumed the throne if Charles and everyone in the royal family dies. It isnt like that of course descendents of the Queen's sister would get the throne, not of Philip's.

Now your probably thinking, that is a 21st century example how do you want to compare it to CK3?
So let's go into history:

Margaret, Queen of Scotland from 1286 to 1290. Inherited Scotland from her mother's father, Alexander III, but died childless shortly after. Her father, the King of Norway had no chance of inheriting Scotland. Instead a civil war broke out between relatives of her grandfather, the mentioned Alexander III of Scotland. In CK3 the King of Norway would get the throne.

Baldwin V, King of Jerusalem from 1185 to 1186. Inherited Jerusalem from his uncle Baldwin IV the Leper, who skipped his sister Sybilla making her son, his nephew, heir directly. Baldwin V died shortly after and Sybilla and her second husband became Queen and King Consort of Jerusalem. In CK3 in Baldwin V death the throne would go to Baldwin V's paternal uncle, an italian count with zero relation to the previous line of monarchs of Jerusalem.

I'm not suggesting how it should be, that is personal preference, I'm just explaining how it is... by default at the simplest level... unless you change something... to make it work like you want it to? :) I thought the question was how and why is it doing this, not 'I want it to do something different'.

You can tinker with succession however you would like. Kingdoms, duchies, counties can (and sometimes do) have a patchwork of inheritance laws and structure. How Scotland chooses to pass inheritance shouldn't be the default setting for the Persians or the Vikings. Danelaw isn't universal any more than Visigothic code - but each does shape how inheritance in that culture and area works. Tribal, clan, feudal; exclusive, preferential, equal; the six basic succession types; the cultural quirks and possibilities - make 'em work for you however you'd like in your game.

The quickest way to get to your ideal may be to change preference (equal/preferred) and to house seniority for succession. If you are the head of your house the title will revert to you and you can dole it back out again to whomever you deem worthy. Hybridize a culture if you want the specific inheritance style. Don't forget religion can affect inheritance too. :)
最后由 jpcerutti 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 7:42
diogobigateixeira 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 8:41 
引用自 jpcerutti
I'm not suggesting how it should be, that is personal preference, I'm just explaining how it is... by default at the simplest level... unless you change something... to make it work like you want it to? :) I thought the question was how and why is it doing this, not 'I want it to do something different'.

Oh no, I understand how it works, I was just blurting a bit to express how much I personally believe it is a tremendous game breaker.
Look at this example: https://ibb.co/PwXJpKy
Now imagine if that half sister was important in your game (p.e. you had married her or something) Then the mother, the Duchess, dies and the Line of Sucession changes completely and the half sister is removed from the line permenantly. Even if you kill the new Duke, her brother, she wont inherit, but a distant paternal cousin of her brother. If you want her to inherit the brother has to die before the mother, but what if the mother dies suddenly. Well then its bye bye Brittany for the sister.

And in that image example the heir is also breton but it could be basically anyone: a foreign King, a landless irish... everything except the rightful heirs

About changing the game, infortunaly I don't know how to do it ahah. but i reported the issue to paradox maybe I will be fortunate and they will take a look at this issue. What pisses me the most is that in CK2 it worked perfectly right :(
最后由 diogobigateixeira 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 8:49
jpcerutti 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 9:04 
引用自 diogobigateixeira
引用自 jpcerutti
I'm not suggesting how it should be, that is personal preference, I'm just explaining how it is... by default at the simplest level... unless you change something... to make it work like you want it to? :) I thought the question was how and why is it doing this, not 'I want it to do something different'.

Oh no, I understand how it works, I was just blurting a bit to express how much I personally believe it is a tremendous game breaker. Look at this example: https://ibb.co/PwXJpKy
Now imagine if that half sister was important in your game (p.e. you had married her or something) Then the mother, the Duchess, dies and the Line of Sucession changes completely and the half sister is removed from the line permenantly. Even if you kill the new Duke, her brother, she wont inherite, but a distant paternal cousin of her brother.

And in that image example the heir is also breton but it could be basically anyone: a foreign King, a landless irish, everything...

About changing the game, infortunaly I don't know how to do it ahah. but i reported the issue to paradox maybe I will be fortunate and they will take a look at this issue. What pisses me the most is that in CK2 it worked perfectly right :(

I think CK2 was too limiting with inheritance. Options, I think, are a good thing - you just have to learn how to use them and learn to let the rest of the world choose their own ruler their own way if it is not your land and your house. Not getting the inheritor I want somewhere else in the world is more likely due to their early demise or the death of whoever I am marrying off as it is to the quirks of succession. If they had a claim I think they keep it, you just have to rework your machination or press the claim.

The easiest way to change the game is the debug mode. If how a particular county/duchy/kingdom/empire is doing inheritance bothers you save & edit the hell out of it. Note the game version, when they update you'll have to revert to start that save again if you want to go back and restart there. Google search whatever your particular command need is. Changing a character's culture, a counties culture, a religion for either, or swapping back and forth between active characters isn't hard to do.
最后由 jpcerutti 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 9:16
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发帖日期: 2024 年 6 月 24 日 下午 3:36
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