Why on Earth a new Stat (Legitimacy) and not fleshing out Prestige?

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Ugh... another mana counter of sorts? I just....

I feel like the devs are not paying attention to their own game, or maybe they are. And it's a cynical thing to sell the DLC.

[JC]

It actually sounds like a much better mechanic.

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Originally posted by JC:

It actually sounds like a much better mechanic.

then ditch old. we have enough bloat and lack of focus.

[Harris]

Creating systems, stats and mechanics, even on top of and stepping on the toes of the existing ones, is new content. And new content is something you can monetize as DLCs. I totally agree with you that PDX should spend the next year polishing the game, fixing bugs, remaking flawed systems, improving performance and such. But the problem here is fleshing out Prestige would be a patch. And you can't sell patches. Not yet anyway. I'm sure one day someone will come up with a way to monetize those as well.

So basically, what you're asking for reads like "Dear PDX, please make ck3 unprofitable to you and maintain it at a loss, paying dev wages from your own pocket rather than ours". This won't be done not because PDX is cynical, but because business exists for profit - so when something is not profitable, there is just no incentive for business to do it.

Try looking at the situation from their POV - it's been a few years since the game's out, the sales are not what they used to be, the community is small and doesn't show a trend for growth. So to justify having even a skeleton crew working on the game, they need to increase prices all the times, come up with new DLC names that look meatier than they are, introduce new mechanics which are at best irrelevant and don't make the game better.

I know, in the ideal world the choice would be between PDX that dedicates vast dev teams to the game, quickly addresses issues and makes meaningful updates; and the one we have right now. But in reality, the choice is simple - either we play along with it and keep supporting business practices we're unhappy about, or Chapter IV will just not be announced next year and the devs will be assigned to other projects within the company.

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

The price isn't my main gripe, honestly.

As one example of failed *gameplay:* "Legitimacy" should be a *function* of the actual mechanics in the game: your nobility's allowance for your rule, your peasants not revolting and refusing rule or their lords to insist your deposition, other kings and queens, emperors accepting your rule. Your own FAMILY accepting it, etc... the relationships in the game define legitimacy already and need to be tightened more: refined. That is legitimacy. And it's a thing that can be refined differently by the various "cultures" and ow they value it in the game *already* But no... Paradox goes elsewhere.

Legitimacy is NOT some arbitrary abstract number- ooh ooh ohh. what i gotta choose in this "Event" to make it go up. Failed legitimacy is hen you lie murdered, or cast out of the realm. Successful legitimacy si when you die of old age on gloriously in battle and your dynasty carries on.

Legitimacy is having power to wield over others in your realm, because by god you are the rightful ruler, and others obey you or else others who will obey you make them pay. And they outnumber or outpower those who think you illegitimate.

Basic history/sociology? whatever tf it is, ain't a stat.

OMFG. Nah, man, they've lost the plot.

No "vast" team required.

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Dizzy Ioeuy:

The price isn't my main gripe, honestly.

As one example of failed *gameplay:* "Legitimacy" should be a *function* of the actual mechanics in the game: your nobility's allowance for your rule, your peasants not revolting and refusing rule or their lords to insist your deposition, other kings and queens, emperors accepting your rule. Your own FAMILY accepting it, etc... the relationships in the game define legitimacy already and need to be tightened more: refined. That is legitimacy. And it's a thing that can be refined differently by the various "cultures" and ow they value it in the game *already* But no... Paradox goes elsewhere.

Legitimacy is NOT some arbitrary abstract number- ooh ooh ohh. what i gotta choose in this "Event" to make it go up. Failed legitimacy is hen you lie murdered, or cast out of the realm. Successful legitimacy si when you die of old age on gloriously in battle and your dynasty carries on.

Legitimacy is having power to wield over others in your realm, because by god you are the rightful ruler, and others obey you or else others who will obey you make them pay. And they outnumber or outpower those who think you illegitimate.

Basic history/sociology? whatever tf it is, ain't a stat.

OMFG. Nah, man, they've lost the plot.

No "vast" team required.

Eh what are you ranting about, this is what they are doing with Legitimacy.
So if a adventurer seized a loved Legitimate Ruler trough conquest, the other rulers don't want to interact with you.

Yes it might be from prestige system, and personally I think the negativity should go below 0, so from -5 till 5. to make it realistic, a tyrant dictator will be at -5 ... that nobody wants to interact with only out of fear or desperation.

[drake_hound]

Example now I am a Norse Varangian Adventurer skip hopping to India ursurping the rightfull rulers there, and still their opinion malus isn't anything different then when I am in Europe.

Yeah I am legitimate indeed, but I don't think rulers around me in India should agree and just say oh another foreigner, bing bing some cash... yes welcome my dear neighbour you can marry my princess daughter. and take over my realm when I die :P

[JC]

You are completely missing the entire Abstract idea of who is legitimate. There are many people with the claim on the thrown. There was no DNA back then to say this person is the rightful ruler. Things get really bad, perhaps it's because a pretender is on the thrown and the rightful ruler isn't ruling. It's basically the only part of this next years update that i'm interested in, though the final event pack sounds interesting,, I hope this aspect makes up for the plague aspects that i thought was not well done at all in CKII. I do like the idea of plagues being effected by war as well.

On top of that, the rulers are the ones writing the history. History is filled with pretenders, and this leans into that.

as for the other mechanic, like grandeur, i'd like to see more done with it, not removing it as they are completely different things.

[A Random Etruscan Noble]

Originally posted by JC:

You are completely missing the entire Abstract idea of who is legitimate. There are many people with the claim on the thrown. There was no DNA back then to say this person is the rightful ruler. Things get really bad, perhaps it's because a pretender is on the thrown and the rightful ruler isn't ruling. It's basically the only part of this next years update that i'm interested in, though the final event pack sounds interesting,, I hope this aspect makes up for the plague aspects that i thought was not well done at all in CKII. I do like the idea of plagues being effected by war as well.

On top of that, the rulers are the ones writing the history. History is filled with pretenders, and this leans into that.

as for the other mechanic, like grandeur, i'd like to see more done with it, not removing it as they are completely different things.

and also succession laws weren't very clear up until relatively recently historically, it was to the point that it was considered the norm (at least in England) for Prince's to rebel against their father in an attempt to seize the Throne, and even in places were succession laws were somewhat clear all it took was powerful people ignoring those laws for them not to matter (think the Byzantine Empire)

[Harris]

Originally posted by Dizzy Ioeuy:

Legitimacy is having power to wield over others in your realm, because by god you are the rightful ruler, and others obey you or else others who will obey you make them pay. And they outnumber or outpower those who think you illegitimate.

Exactly. Legitimacy is already in the game. If you're sitting on the throne and got enough steel backing you up to remain there = you are effectively legitimate and your rule won't be challenged. In fact, this power dynamics when you need to constantly be more powerful than all your vassals (preferably - combined) and as such are growing an enormous capital that's an administrative and economical powerhouse at the expense of bleeding your vassals dry feels very realistic. It gives insight into why most countries today have capitals which are much more developed and prominent than the rest of the country.

What legitimacy is trying to do is already in the game by virtue of other mechanics. If you win a war it makes your glory hound vassals like you more, thus increasing your grip on the throne. If your dynasty is old and prominent, you got enough points to buy a perk (or whatever it's called) for increased marriage acceptance. Etc.

So like I said in another thread, legitimacy feels to me like too much of stepping on the toes of the existing mechanics. I'd honestly they rather revisited those other 2 DLC ideas they did not make last year and improved on the tyrant playstyle and our love life.

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Harris:

Originally posted by Dizzy Ioeuy:

Legitimacy is having power to wield over others in your realm, because by god you are the rightful ruler, and others obey you or else others who will obey you make them pay. And they outnumber or outpower those who think you illegitimate.

Exactly. Legitimacy is already in the game. If you're sitting on the throne and got enough steel backing you up to remain there = you are effectively legitimate and your rule won't be challenged. In fact, this power dynamics when you need to constantly be more powerful than all your vassals (preferably - combined) and as such are growing an enormous capital that's an administrative and economical powerhouse at the expense of bleeding your vassals dry feels very realistic. It gives insight into why most countries today have capitals which are much more developed and prominent than the rest of the country.

What legitimacy is trying to do is already in the game by virtue of other mechanics. If you win a war it makes your glory hound vassals like you more, thus increasing your grip on the throne. If your dynasty is old and prominent, you got enough points to buy a perk (or whatever it's called) for increased marriage acceptance. Etc.

So like I said in another thread, legitimacy feels to me like too much of stepping on the toes of the existing mechanics. I'd honestly they rather revisited those other 2 DLC ideas they did not make last year and improved on the tyrant playstyle and our love life.

It stepping on excisting Mechanic maybe we don't know for sure, we can only speculate.
But based on what they released so far or their "General" idea is that they wanted a bigger Opinion Malus. since it was too easier.

But what we know so far, is that Probaly the Legitimacy ties into a lot of FEATURES.. like Legends, Plague, Byzantium and also Landless mechanic, something excisting MECHANICS do not.

There lies the difference.

[Abacus]

There will be new things that get attached to prestige as well. Same with the other mana.

Legitimacy has so many dynamics and represent both a real and believable aspect of the era. Pretenders where a real and dangerous thing, and this pairs well with the Byzantine DLC.

This will also pair very well with the upcoming DLC, but also things like factions, successions, etc.

It is already a well known mechanic, I'm sure they will implement it well.

Also remember, it's easier to give objective to the AI when you have variables like this. The AI will have another variable to express their "personality" and be inline with traits they might have.