Bring back the old start dates

[TheGallery435]

In CK 2 (if you had all of the expansions), you had access to five start dates, whereas in CK3, we only have two. While I know that means more content and work, but it would be great to be able to play during the age of Charlemagne, the Iron Century, or even the Ottomans in CK3.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

Nah. I like how it is with CK3.
They even have the statistics internally.

Multiple start dates is very complicated to implement, and barely anyone plays any start date beyond the earliest, or something like that.

There's a couple mods out there if you want different start dates though

Like Fallen Eagle

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2243307127&searchtext=fallen+eagle

An earlier start date would quickly become the most played then, which makes sense. Why don't you want it?

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

Originally posted by Pain...:

An earlier start date would quickly become the most played then, which makes sense. Why don't you want it?

There's a finite pool of time and resources. Doing one thing takes away from another thing. Budgeting. If PDX puts resources to new start dates, they have to cut back on other things. I don't want that. Let the alternate start dates be a passion project of the modders.

It's not a zero sum game, they could use a few people to create one based on the CK2 earliest start date.

[TheGallery435]

Thanks for the mod suggestion :)

[Razorblade]

The Charlemagne start had like 10 actual historical figures on the map; there is simply too little information from that time period to actually make a good start date out of it. 867 is pretty much as early as the devs can logically go and ensure any kind of quality.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

Originally posted by Pain...:

It's not a zero sum game, they could use a few people to create one based on the CK2 earliest start date.

I never said they couldn't, but again refer to my point.
No matter your idealism, realism suggests that doing A results in less of B.

If they found a way to balance, don't you think they would have already done so? PDX has always been innovative and they're developers are passionate and love their job. People in their staff have thought of many different problems and solutions to said problems.

They most likely have had a conversation about multiple start dates, adding more, etc, but they also have internal data, like statistics and what the players will play. From what they've revealed, internal data suggests that adding multiple start dates aren't as economically feasible as revamping the Byzantium government system.

If I'm not mistaken the 8th century start date of CK2 was added alongside a DLC, so it's not a matter of money if they stand to make a profit out of it.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

Originally posted by Pain...:

If I'm not mistaken the 8th century start date of CK2 was added alongside a DLC, so it's not a matter of money if they stand to make a profit out of it.

If you won't accept my answer, use the search function. Look up Start Dates. Over the years, Trinexx and other devs like Bjorn have said their fair share on why it is not a high priority at the moment and better suited for modders to complete.

It's not a matter of acceptance, we're both at the moment presenting our arguments with the aim of showing each other that our POV is logical, what I did was point out how it's not a matter of money. Also to reiterate my answer for your point here, the 8th century start date would be a century earlier than the current one, so if players are indeed much more likely to start the game at the earliest possible date then that's another reason why one should be made in the form of a free update that comes along with a paid DLC.

So if it's not a matter of low popularity or money, what would be the problem?

[PDX-Trinexx]

Originally posted by Pain...:

So if it's not a matter of low popularity or money, what would be the problem?

Main ingredient is the lack of reliable records for most of the playable regions during those times, leading to wildly ahistorical scenarios. Mix in a cup of the type of feudalism we simulate being an inappropriate representation of how kingdoms operated during that period, then garnish with a topping of we'd have to support it and keep it updated for the rest of the game's lifespan.

Serves 4-8.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

I don't know how my comment could come off as eristic, by "we're having an argument" I mean we have opposing viewpoints on this issue and we're trying to understand each other.

Originally posted by PDX-Trinexx:

Originally posted by Pain...:

So if it's not a matter of low popularity or money, what would be the problem?

Main ingredient is the lack of reliable records for most of the playable regions during those times, leading to wildly ahistorical scenarios. Mix in a cup of the type of feudalism we simulate being an inappropriate representation of how kingdoms operated during that period, then garnish with a topping of we'd have to support it and keep it updated for the rest of the game's lifespan.

Serves 4-8.

Ah ok, that makes sense. Pity though, I would've liked to have a start date closer to Charlemagne's reign.

[Сааребас]

What I would like more is being able to continue playing after the end date or simply a random map.
Not random realms/cultures/religions but something different then the world map.

[Сааребас]

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

Originally posted by Пьяный Медоед (Се:

What I would like more is being able to continue playing after the end date or simply a random map.
Not random realms/cultures/religions but something different then the world map.

There's an option to continue playing indefinitely after the 1453 end date in Options, iirc.

As for unique maps, plenty of mods out there. There's also a nonzero chance of eventually going to Asia.

I know there is an option in the settings, but I rather play regularly with the chance of the occasional achievement and then decide wether I like too continue the run.

It's ridiculous that mods no longer disable achievements but wanting too play after end date?
Oh no, we can't allow that.

I also prefer to play without mods.
When playing offline, as I do, I rather see it incorporated in the game.

Playing after end date without achievements, whilst starting with the possibility of getting achievements, does not seem unreasonable in my eyes, tho I suspect (Steam) achievements are already disabled when playing offline.

[Сааребас]

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

Originally posted by Пьяный Медоед (Се:

It's ridiculous that mods no longer disable achievements but wanting too play after end date?
Oh no, we can't allow that.

I did not realize it still turned off achievements. Thank you for informing me. I do agree with you but I have an understanding of why it is this way, an unlimited time would make achievement grinding easy to exploit.

The only thing I want is a pop up after the end date is reached.

Do you wish to continue playing? Yes, achievements are disabled from now on.
No, go back to the title menu.

This, so it still doesn't make achievements more obsolete then they are now but also let's you be able to continue to play in the world you helped create.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Пьяный Медоед (Се:

Originally posted by Federal Agent Rex:

I did not realize it still turned off achievements. Thank you for informing me. I do agree with you but I have an understanding of why it is this way, an unlimited time would make achievement grinding easy to exploit.

The only thing I want is a pop up after the end date is reached.

Do you wish to continue playing? Yes, achievements are disabled from now on.
No, go back to the title menu.

This, so it still doesn't make achievements more obsolete then they are now but also let's you be able to continue to play in the world you helped create.

That would be nice, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to code it in but I can't imagine it would be too hard.

[Сааребас]

Originally posted by Pain...:

Originally posted by Пьяный Медоед (Се:

The only thing I want is a pop up after the end date is reached.

Do you wish to continue playing? Yes, achievements are disabled from now on.
No, go back to the title menu.

This, so it still doesn't make achievements more obsolete then they are now but also let's you be able to continue to play in the world you helped create.

That would be nice, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to code it in but I can't imagine it would be too hard.

I don't think it would be hard to implement either, but I don't have a deep understanding of the code, so it might be a lot harder then I (we?) imagine.

Iirc it was in CK2 and the codes look similar when glancing over them.

[CrUsHeR]

The lack of different start dates is certainly one cause for the diminshing replayability.
There are some areas where i seem to personally know about half the courtiers.

Just imagine how CK2 even has two bookmarks for 1066; one before- and one after William's conquest of England.

Well here are some examples from the wiki, just to give an idea about the richness, the details and the diversity to players who didn't play CK2, and refresh the memories of those who did:



Early Middle Ages (769)

• Charles and Carloman Karling rule over a divided Francia.
  
• On the Italian peninsula, Desiderius is the King of Lombardy, but he holds papal lands in defiance of the Papacy.
  
• In the Byzantine Empire, controversy rages regarding the use of religious images.
  
• The Abbasid Caliphate is at the zenith of its power. However, powerful vassals are already biding their time to break free.
  
• The Umayyad Sultanate of Al-Andalus controls large swathes of Hispania, a consolation prize of sorts after losing their empire to the Abbasids about 20 years prior.
  
• To their north, Asturias is in real danger of falling into Muslim hands.
  
• Over in the East, the Empire of Tibet looms large over its neighbours, ruling over a realm still clinging to pagan ways.
  
• Meanwhile the Western Protectorate is at the nadir of its power, as the Tang Dynasty has yet to recover from internal rebellion about a decade prior.

The Iron Century (936)

• As the galloping hordes of the Hungarian warlord Arpad Zoltan raid across Europe, the Christian world stands divided.
  
• Otto Ludolfinger is the king of Germany, and stands poised to unify Central Europe under a Holy Roman Empire.
  
• Young King Louis IV rules the West Franks, the direct heir to Charlemagne's legacy, but is incapable of controlling his southern lords.
  
• England has achieved unification at last under King Æthelstan, while León stands alone in the path of Reconquista.
  
• Finally, King Haakon the Good rules over pagan Norway while staying true to his Christian faith.
  
• After suffering great defeats to the rising power of Bulgaria, the Byzantine Empire watches over the Mediterranean with great concern.
  
• The mighty Abbasid Caliphate has shrunk but still commands many hearts and minds.
  
• In Egypt the Ikhshidid Sultanate rules with an iron fist.
  
• From Africa the Fatimid Caliphate has risen against the Sunni establishment.
  
• in Iberia the first caliph of Cordoba Abd-al-Rahman holds the last light of the Umayyad legacy.
  
• Being exiled from Norway, Eirik Bloodaxe bides his time, with a great army ready to sail away to conquer whatever his heart desires.
  
• In distant Persia, the recent Muslim convert Vushmgir Ziyarid considers the legacy of his deceased Zoroastrian brother.
  
• In the cold lands of the Kievan Rus', Igor Rurikid rules over a diverse people still clinging on to their old gods.
  
• Holding control over the Guiyi Army - the last Tang presence in the West - Cao Yuande plots to build a new kingdom for himself away from the influence of his wartorn homeland.
  
• North of Dunhuang, Emperor Taizong of the Liao dynasty builds a large military presence across the steppes with his eye turned to the riches of both west and east.
  
• On the Indian subcontinent, Mahipala Pratihara holds one of the largest armies in the known world, ready to reclaim the lost glory of generations past.

So if you're now thinking - wow that sounds really huge and epic, well... it actually is!
Or was?

[saroalberdi]

I am still amzed that in a (superb) "crusader kings" game you are not able to play as a real Outremer landlord... a XIIth Start Date would be awesome. DLC worth paying there!!