What's so great about the Byzantine empire, and why is there a noticeable amount of people that keep demanding it?

[Raingnome Noir]

This question is partly written in annoyance, partly in genuine curiousity. Obviously, if i'm asking this question i'm not a history buff either, as i'd already know the answer.

From a simple gamer's point of view i don't get it, if someone says to me 'India!' I'm suddenly visited by visions of tigers, huge precious stones, luxurious turbans and curved swords, if someone says Vikings! It's boats, axes, berserkers and very large beer steins, if someone says 'France!' i see onions.... (just joking), i see knights, flowing banners, rearing horses and elegant ladies with pointy hats, and the list goes on.

When someone says, 'Byzantine empire' though, my mind goes blank. All know is they're sort of the fading half of the once great Romans, a kind of medieval business that had to close half of its stores and isn't doing very well anymore. They sit there stagnating, knocking around a few of the neighbouring tribes for a couple hundred years, and that's it. I can't recall any particular fashion or 'gimmick' that belongs to them, they're pretty indistinct.

So what is it, what's so good about them?

[Straybow]

If we are going by a sort of stereotypical impression, then what you said was exactly a draw. A once proud empire, reduced but not destroyed, fighting for tooth and nail to preserve what it has. And what it has is still an envy of the world. You've got intrigue, you've got corruption and and decline and fall of empires, fertile ground for a fun adventure.

None of this has all that much to do with actual history, just a romantic perception. I personally find rotting empires a more fun setting then empire building.

[Raingnome Noir]

Originally posted by Straybow:

If we are going by a sort of stereotypical impression, then what you said was exactly a draw. A once proud empire, reduced but not destroyed, fighting for tooth and nail to preserve what it has. And what it has is still an envy of the world. You've got intrigue, you've got corruption and and decline and fall of empires, fertile ground for a fun adventure.

None of this has all that much to do with actual history, just a romantic perception. I personally find rotting empires a more fun setting then empire building.

Isn't the ancient world full of nations like that though? I mean, nations on their way out. I'm not sure what's so compelling about stagnation and a culture that isn't really very identifiable, at least not to a layman like me.

There are so many more interesting cultures, like the Italian merchant families for one, and that hasn't been included either, yet i barely see any calls for it. It's always 'where's my Byzantine'. It's a mystery to me

[Cold Death]

Who cares about India and its tigers? When people think of Byzantium they think of restoring the glory of Rome.

[The Strand]

Originally posted by Cold Death:

Who cares about India and its tigers? When people think of Byzantium they think of restoring the glory of Rome.

Yup - that.

[PuttBlug]

By wealth and power, the Roman empire was the United States of the early and mid medieval era, with a history rich with near destruction, comebacks, betrayals, epic reconquest of lands. What is more interesting to a history fan as most of us are? Tigers and precious stones or history?

Not saying India doesn't have its own interesting history but those are the things you pointed out regarding why you like India. Also Byzantium is near the center of the map, a huge empire with a rich history and it lacks the focus other interesting places like Scandinavia and now Persia and the middle east have gotten.

I'm really liking the new DLC and base game update by the way, Persia might be my new favorite region to play in.

[Raingnome Noir]

Originally posted by Cold Death:

Who cares about India and its tigers? When people think of Byzantium they think of restoring the glory of Rome.

I mean, Byzantium isn't Rome, it's a bit like the difference between Selfridges and Aldi's. It's an inferior shadow of Rome

[Cold Death]

Originally posted by Raingnome Noir:

Originally posted by Cold Death:

Who cares about India and its tigers? When people think of Byzantium they think of restoring the glory of Rome.

I mean, Byzantium isn't Rome, it's a bit like the difference between Selfridges and Aldi's. It's an inferior shadow of Rome

I didn't say it was Rome? Yes a shadow of Rome that's why I said restoring Rome lol.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Raingnome Noir:

Originally posted by Cold Death:

Who cares about India and its tigers? When people think of Byzantium they think of restoring the glory of Rome.

I mean, Byzantium isn't Rome, it's a bit like the difference between Selfridges and Aldi's. It's an inferior shadow of Rome

What is Rome? Is it the city or the empire? If its the empire then Byzantium is "Rome", weakened from its peak of course when it was united and at its greatest extent but still.

Lets not forget that it was Byzantium along with the Franks to the west who beat back the Muslim hordes from conquering Europe.

[Raingnome Noir]

Originally posted by Pain...:

By wealth and power, the Roman empire was the United States of the early and mid medieval era, with a history rich with near destruction, comebacks, betrayals, epic reconquest of lands. What is more interesting to a history fan as most of us are? Tigers and precious stones or history?

Not saying India doesn't have its own interesting history but those are the things you pointed out regarding why you like India. Also Byzantium is near the center of the map, a huge empire with a rich history and it lacks the focus other interesting places like Scandinavia and now Persia and the middle east have gotten.

I'm really liking the new DLC and base game update by the way, Persia might be my new favorite region to play in.

Yeah i probably have a film-like view of history, and not an actual historical one. All i know is Byzantine really bores me, other than the armoured cataphracts (which were a Persian idea anyway i believe?) when it comes to cultural identity, they seem so confused and indistinct.

Greek speaking ex-romans, wearing clothing that belongs to everyone else, that don't conquer like the old empire did, that don't innovate, they just hold on to what they have, stagnating, slowly losing battles and land, They were the tail of the Roman 'dog' no? I just don't get the attraction

[Cold Death]

Originally posted by Raingnome Noir:

Originally posted by Pain...:

By wealth and power, the Roman empire was the United States of the early and mid medieval era, with a history rich with near destruction, comebacks, betrayals, epic reconquest of lands. What is more interesting to a history fan as most of us are? Tigers and precious stones or history?

Not saying India doesn't have its own interesting history but those are the things you pointed out regarding why you like India. Also Byzantium is near the center of the map, a huge empire with a rich history and it lacks the focus other interesting places like Scandinavia and now Persia and the middle east have gotten.

I'm really liking the new DLC and base game update by the way, Persia might be my new favorite region to play in.

Yeah i probably have a film-like view of history, and not an actual historical one. All i know is Byzantine really bores me, other than the armoured cataphracts (which were a Persian idea anyway i believe?) when it comes to cultural identity, they seem so confused and indistinct.

Greek speaking ex-romans, wearing clothing that belongs to everyone else, that don't conquer like the old empire did, that don't innovate, they just hold on to what they have, stagnating, slowly losing battles and land, They were the tail of the Roman 'dog' no? I just don't get the attraction

Confused of identity? They follow what the roman empire did which was adapt and integrate cultures and ideas like a melting pot, it just seems more like you are biased against them honestly lol.

[Abacus]

people it will never get a singualr DLC.

However if we keep rooting for the region packs, we can get one possibly. It won't just be Byzantine but the region and of course a conflict of various realms (Hungary, Turks, Mamluks, etc.)
Of course many would want other regions like Africa, India and the steppe, Siberia to get DLC first.

[Cold Death]

Originally posted by Simply B:

people it will never get a singualr DLC.

However if we keep rooting for the region packs, we can get one possibly. It won't just be Byzantine but the region and of course a conflict of various realms (Hungary, Turks, Mamluks, etc.)
Of course many would want other regions like Africa, India and the steppe, Siberia to get DLC first.

I personally would want Egypt but they should focus on the far east since i doubt many people play around there.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Cold Death:

Originally posted by Simply B:

people it will never get a singualr DLC.

However if we keep rooting for the region packs, we can get one possibly. It won't just be Byzantine but the region and of course a conflict of various realms (Hungary, Turks, Mamluks, etc.)
Of course many would want other regions like Africa, India and the steppe, Siberia to get DLC first.

I personally would want Egypt but they should focus on the far east since i doubt many people play around there.

Considering other Egyptian things atm I think you might be very unlucky.
I'd go for Slavic world or india as far as broad regions go.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Raingnome Noir:

Originally posted by Pain...:

By wealth and power, the Roman empire was the United States of the early and mid medieval era, with a history rich with near destruction, comebacks, betrayals, epic reconquest of lands. What is more interesting to a history fan as most of us are? Tigers and precious stones or history?

Not saying India doesn't have its own interesting history but those are the things you pointed out regarding why you like India. Also Byzantium is near the center of the map, a huge empire with a rich history and it lacks the focus other interesting places like Scandinavia and now Persia and the middle east have gotten.

I'm really liking the new DLC and base game update by the way, Persia might be my new favorite region to play in.

Yeah i probably have a film-like view of history, and not an actual historical one. All i know is Byzantine really bores me, other than the armoured cataphracts (which were a Persian idea anyway i believe?) when it comes to cultural identity, they seem so confused and indistinct.

Greek speaking ex-romans, wearing clothing that belongs to everyone else, that don't conquer like the old empire did, that don't innovate, they just hold on to what they have, stagnating, slowly losing battles and land, They were the tail of the Roman 'dog' no? I just don't get the attraction

That's cool dude, you don't have to explain yourself if it bores you. We're only saying reasons why people are wishing for a Byzantine focused DLC/update. I'm not particularly interested in anything that's not located in France, Britain, Scandinavia, Byzantium or the Middle east (after the clan update and DLC) but I don't have any issues with people who like to play anything else.

The Romans adopted armored cavalry and horse archers from the enemies they came into contact with, the Byzantine army was VERY different from the army of the republic of Rome or the imperial army of the late antiquity. Yes they adopted the cataphracts (which is a Greek word to describe them) because they came in contact with Greek Hellenistic kingdoms who used them and later the Parthians who also relied heavily on cavalry. But the idea to use heavily armored cavalry was originally from the Persians.

[castrophilakae]

Byzantium is so much more than a rump state of the old Roman Empire. It's a vibrant empire that kept learning and culture alive while the remnants of the Western Empire were picked clean. It's an empire that survived many wars, heresies, and other events that should have been the end of the empire but it endured through almost everything thrown at it. It's an empire and time period that is readily dismissed in the modern era as a "Greek pretender state" when it is it's own unique entity resplendent in its own glory and history. With notable Emperors like Constantine I, Justinian I, Theodosius II, Basil II, and Alexius Kommenos.