Catholic Crusade AI to Jerusalem is so broke

[Hans CakeStealer]

First time playing a catholic in this game and every time the pope calls for a holy war, absolute chaos begins. Half the armies raised in Europe start massing around East Francia and Bavaria and then chill, meanwhile a quarter sail to Jerusalem to either be slaughtered or they just don't move at all. This is the very theme of the game and the developers failed.

[cdplayer906]

we know

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by Hans CakeStealer:

First time playing a catholic in this game and every time the pope calls for a holy war, absolute chaos begins. Half the armies raised in Europe start massing around East Francia and Bavaria and then chill, meanwhile a quarter sail to Jerusalem to either be slaughtered or they just don't move at all. This is the very theme of the game and the developers failed.

And another Fact:

The Devs of KoH2(Black Sea Games), have working Crusades in KoH2 and they are a smaller Dev Studio than PDS.

[PostalGibbon]

PDX goes for historically accurate crusades by accident/design which were monumental failures.
Well first was success because Muslim clans infighting after that down to hill, crowning achievement (or cockup) of being fourth crusade and burning of Constantinople which started downhill of Byzantine and raise of Ottomans.

But in player perspective crusades in current state do not make fun game play (again defensive works fine its the offensive that just sucks).

[Jackochainsaw]

I've played the game for over 1,500 hours. Crusades are hit and miss for sure. The Jihads going the other way are even more disappointing. However, I've had some amazing crusades but I think these were mostly by accident. Early crusades go terribly. They are normally more successful when you, as the player, are behind one of the bigger factions. I like starting as a Count or Duke level a lot of the time so, at times, I'm not a big player. I see the crusades as an opportunity, even if the overall outcome is fail-sauce. I tend to pick a target away from the war target and siege it down to see if I get any prisoners. I might try and fight a small battle against a little adversary to make sure my ruler gets the crusader trait, and then I see where I go from there and bug out if its getting too hot and let the crusade burn out. At the very least, all your knights get a nice crusader buff, and you get some rep with the Pope for showing up which you can turn into coin.

I think the best crusade I've played was where the Pope decided on a Kingdom under the Mongol Horde. It was insane.

It definitely could use some major attention considering that this game is called Crusader Kings. I think there are some areas in Religion that could do with an overhaul. The fact that Syncretism and Rite takes up a tenet is insane to me. The fact that you can't appeal to the Pope to become ecumenical seems like an oversight.

[Bordric]

Yeah it is broke for the Catholics because well everyone knows why all the armies get fed piecemeal.

Considering it is the very name of the game it is the worse major mechanic in the game.

[Сааребас]

Originally posted by PostalGibbon:

PDX goes for historically accurate crusades by accident/design which were monumental failures.
Well first was success because Muslim clans infighting after that down to hill, crowning achievement (or cockup) of being fourth crusade and burning of Constantinople which started downhill of Byzantine and raise of Ottomans.

But in player perspective crusades in current state do not make fun game play (again defensive works fine its the offensive that just sucks).

Funny, because I would say the Crusades eventually failed due to a lack of organisation and common ground on the Christian side of things.
Even more so it all started by infighting and lack of cohesion in the Eastern Roman Empire for centuries, combined with the schism and disassociation from the western half of Europe. The fact that the Pope even stimulated a crusade in the first place can be called a miracle in and of itself never mind that any land was even reconquered multiple times.

Ironically, the fight, even to this day, has always been territorial rather then a religious one.

[PostalGibbon]

Originally posted by Пьяный Медоед (Се:

Originally posted by PostalGibbon:

PDX goes for historically accurate crusades by accident/design which were monumental failures.
Well first was success because Muslim clans infighting after that down to hill, crowning achievement (or cockup) of being fourth crusade and burning of Constantinople which started downhill of Byzantine and raise of Ottomans.

But in player perspective crusades in current state do not make fun game play (again defensive works fine its the offensive that just sucks).

Funny, because I would say the Crusades eventually failed due to a lack of organisation and common ground on the Christian side of things.
Even more so it all started by infighting and lack of cohesion in the Eastern Roman Empire for centuries, combined with the schism and disassociation from the western half of Europe. The fact that the Pope even stimulated a crusade in the first place can be called a miracle in and of itself never mind that any land was even reconquered multiple times.

Ironically, the fight, even to this day, has always been territorial rather then a religious one.

You are right my take on the matter was based to some history episodes in youtube.
But i guess is it right to say that nail on that coffin that was Eastern Roman Empire was burning of Constantinople in fourth crusade which ERE never recovered.

Eastern Roman Empire was in free fall before that doing stupid ♥♥♥♥♥ like mass killing Venetians in Constantinople which ire the Venice and changed the course of crusade to Constantinople.

[Artos]

I think they just need to improve the AI a bit. Defending AI is smart, picks their targets correctly and just keeps the score on their side. Well... crusaders on the other hand often just walk around the same place and every 10 seconds stop siege to start it again... I think they need to introduce sub-mechanic. Some type of cohesion meter which players and AI can influence. Better cohesion = AI acts smarter. That way you can influence it in some way.

However, its probably something that will be "fixed" (so its a better experience for players) whenever we get some Papacy DLC that lets us lead the religion. And this is really unlikely XD

[Reivan]

Originally posted by Artos:

I think they just need to improve the AI a bit. Defending AI is smart, picks their targets correctly and just keeps the score on their side. Well... crusaders on the other hand often just walk around the same place and every 10 seconds stop siege to start it again... I think they need to introduce sub-mechanic. Some type of cohesion meter which players and AI can influence. Better cohesion = AI acts smarter. That way you can influence it in some way.

However, its probably something that will be "fixed" (so its a better experience for players) whenever we get some Papacy DLC that lets us lead the religion. And this is really unlikely XD

I mean there doesn't need to be a dlc to take over the papacy/lead the religion when you can already make your own branch of catholicism that puts you as the head of the religion and just have to take over if you want to go that route honestly if they could fix the ai is all they'd have to do.

[Artos]

Originally posted by Reivan:

Originally posted by Artos:

I think they just need to improve the AI a bit. Defending AI is smart, picks their targets correctly and just keeps the score on their side. Well... crusaders on the other hand often just walk around the same place and every 10 seconds stop siege to start it again... I think they need to introduce sub-mechanic. Some type of cohesion meter which players and AI can influence. Better cohesion = AI acts smarter. That way you can influence it in some way.

However, its probably something that will be "fixed" (so its a better experience for players) whenever we get some Papacy DLC that lets us lead the religion. And this is really unlikely XD

I mean there doesn't need to be a dlc to take over the papacy/lead the religion when you can already make your own branch of catholicism that puts you as the head of the religion and just have to take over if you want to go that route honestly if they could fix the ai is all they'd have to do.

Ohh, you didn't understand me. I was talking of how Papacy/ religion works. So you can be pope and orchestrate some of the major global map decisions through religion. Extra "holy" support for this kingdom, increased missionary support over there, actually leading crusades etc. Also the internal structure of electing pope and gaining power + for outsiders ability to support your bishop and gain more influence/support for bonuses and not just piety.

Right now its kinda lame. You can just buy gold for piety that just builds up naturally and being part of religion just gives you passive modifiers. After all religion was much bigger back then. Often creation of kingdom and being recognised as ruler was dependant on Pope's acceptance. Heck only reason Poland is Christian from the very start of its life is because it was required of them to become Christians otherwise they would treat them as tribes and never accept them as united kingdom.

So, I feel its a bit bad that a game called "Crusader Kings" doesn't put much focus on religion and actually treats it as a mechanic that can be forgotten for most of the playthrough.

[TemplarScott]

yes crusades for Christians are broken as f*ck pope started one and 80000 Christians stood in Aquitaine in France until they were in low supply and then finally stared to move out but by the time they got to Jerusalem they were starving and got slaughtered by the Muslims and the other 30000 went there straight away and were heavily outnumbered

[Сааребас]

Originally posted by Rwethereyet?:

Once had the Pope sail thru the Bosphorus to the E coast of the Black Sea & begin the worlds-worst-ever flanking maneuver to Jerusalem

It's just a Pope thing, you wouldn't understand.

[Don-Meisner]

I find it 50/50 between win and loss on crusades

[Helmin]

Been like this since release, just gotta live with it