Some love for the Rus?

[Harris]

With the 1.9.1, I feel the game is becoming way too Western Europe-centric. As in, balanced around prosperous lands with all those towns and monasteries as well as slots for mines and cathedrals. With more and more emphasis on development and era progression, I can't see much appeal to playing in a wasteland that is right now russia and siberia. Historically Rus was tribal for the large chunk of its history and had no kings until 1253, however in ck3 I am heavily incentivized to feudalize right away in 867:

1) 1.9.1 takes away Taxation Tours from tribals, which hurts Rus in particular as the realm was historically funded through poliudie until mid 10th century, so that change is unrealistic and frustrating;

2) Found the Capital of the Rus' decision gives +50% holding taxes for 100 years, but realistically all this does is turning the gold income of a tribal realm capital of 1.0 into 1.5 unless I feudalize;

3) Golden Gate of Kyiv is just bad. It has two major problems - first, it's gated (pun) behind Manorialism, which I kinda get, but which makes it arrive super late given the average development in the region; and second, it's a jack of all trades that gives tiny bonuses across the board while lacking a distinct focus. Grand Temple and Hall of Heroes both appear as superior options, especially as they come online much earlier.

This all leads to a situation where I don't see a game plan for the Rus other than becoming a vassal to Constantinople ASAP and having it carry me techonologically and economically. Until we get a flavor pack for East Slavs my best suggestion for PDX would be to pull the "Theodosian walls" and change gold income from Found Capital of the Rus' and Golden Gate to flat values rather than percentages.

[Headshotkill]

I've made a suggestion for a deeper economic system in CK3 which would hopefully make the game more interesting to play. It's a broad simulation and should make all nations more interesting to play as, also those outside Europe.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/coinage-and-trade-economy-simulation-for-ck3.1585762/
I admit I focused almost exclusively on non-tribal gameplay in my suggestion, from what I read on wikipedia the history of Kievan Rus is very interesting. Around the 10-11th century it seems to be a hybrid of feudal and tribal governance. They did have a currency so it could totally work with my suggestion.

[Багряный]

I agree. Novgorod and Old Ladoga had a significant level of development by old standards. It also refers to Vologda, in which there are Asian tribes, although Chud is a pure Eastern Slavic tribe.

And in general, Rus had enough strength to fight the Khazaria and other aggressive tribes. In the game, Rus practically did not receive normal game mechanics. There is no participation of the Boyars, who until the 17th century had big authority, power and strength.

[Harris]

Originally posted by Veresh1989:

I agree. Novgorod and Old Ladoga had a significant level of development by old standards.

And in general, Rus had enough strength to fight the Khazaria and other aggressive tribes. In the game, Rus practically did not receive normal game mechanics.

Yup, there was a reason there was this constant competition for who gets to "sit" in Kyiv throughout Rus history, but there are no mechanics in game to reflect its significance, like a center of trade route "from Varangians to Greeks". In essense, Theodosian walls having 10 flat gold income is just a bandaid to reflect all those things. So I hope Rus gets a similar bandaid for the time being.

Originally posted by Triangle:

We might not get a Russian expansion until the war’s over. It’d be like making an entire DLC surrounding the patriarchal structures of Iran right now . . . wait-a-second

Our history maintains russia has no claim over Kyivan Rus as their journey began centuries later in the swamps of muscovy. Given that in the game the center for russian empire is in Kyiv, I'm sure PDX will get the fine details right :)

That said, there's a lot of cool Slavic lore they could work with, much like they did for Northern Lords. Like they could bring back taxation tours if you're Slavic as that's how taxation worked until after Olga of Kyiv.

And speaking of strength, Rus was pretty much a local bully who did raids for Constantinople. Which made me recall another issue I should have mentioned - Varangian adventurers. Playing in the region is hardcore mode because you regularly get this 8k stacks of viking invaders. Of course, you can decide to "Embrace local traditions" and change your culture and faith in exchange for 80 years reprieve. But between Norse Malleable Invaders and all the intemingling between Varangians and Slavs you definitely want a hybrid culture to reflect that. Critically, it is needed in order to retain Longships and be able to raid over seas. So you're stuck with a tough choice of giving up all of that in exchange for reprieve.

Which gives birth to another suggestion for PDX - make the decision to get "settled dynasty" available not only to north germanics, but also hybrid cultures which has it as one of its parents.

[Jet]

tribals and nomads need more love. feudals keep getting stronger and they were already quick to fall behind. In my latest game christianity and islam took over around 950 and thats making a difference in northern europe and western africa. Maybe in a couple years we will get something to even out the odds