Bohemia is the weakest independent duchy start I have ever seen.

[Tethryss]

867 Start date.
Everything about this start is mediocre.
You are surrounded by more powerful tribal enemies.
Your financial situation is god awful, dreadful and mediocre.
Your military power is utterly pathetic.
If you don't create your own dynasty, the heirs in the beginning are utter garbage.
If you surrender your independence for protection, you now have to claw your way into independence from all of Germany, which figures its crap out after about 70 years.
Expansion east is not an option.
Expansion west is a nightmare.
Expansion north without strong alliances is a nightmare.
Expansion south is difficult and everyone around you is stronger than you.

Seriously, screw this duchy.

[Actionjackson]

Deal with it

[Karsh]

isn't bohemia supposed to be a risky start but afterwards it's paradise basicly :P ?

[Actionjackson]

Take the 1066 start, Bohemia stronk. In 867 they are not there yet.

[Seggellion]

Yes. It's a difficult start in 867, but that is why I enjoy it. To make it even more difficult, start out in Hradec.

[spasti696969]

Marry into the crown of Great Moravia and then murder the entire family until the crown falls on your head. Then form the Kingdom of Bohemia for good measure.

[CaptainSpacetime]

I thought Bohemia has super good land

[Rova]

It is doable, dephending on how you approach things.

In my last game, I started as a vassal of Bohemia, with only the puny north-eastern county.
The Bohemia dutchy got eaten by the Bavaria kingdom after a while, so the dutchy became part of that kingdom.
I was still a vassal at that point, building up my eceonomy and taking over dutchies slowly, protected by the kingdom from outside threats.
At a certain point I had enough counties to create the dutchy title, then the king gave me the left over vassals to me, of that dutchy (for some reason the dutchy title was destroyed)
Upon some succession crisis the kingdom got split up into the Bavaria kingdom and the Bohemia kingdom, but because I already controlled a lot of counties and the dutchy title, the new king of Bohemia only had 1 county. So, I took the kingdom over with ease with a quick one sided war.
At that point my economy was okay to be able to defend myself from other threats, whilst making strong alliances and work my way further up in the world.

I think a lot of people shy away from being a vassal, but it is most of the time a ticket to safety whilst you bolster yourself up in dire times.
Plus being a vassal can be fun, it is fun to be a huge pain in your liege's ass.

[Seggellion]

With the new DLC, playing in Bohemia is much easier, especially if you start in tribal. Use the hunt and feast to give huge amounts of prestige to hire troops. Custom make a ruler with 400 points and focus on martial and raiding. Marry one neighbor to give you a buffer from some enemies and others raiding you. Slowly grow, take over the kingdom like mentioned above, and then go on pilgrimage for easy piety. Reform the religion and create a holy order for easy troops to defend your holdings and continue to slowly expand. Without pushing it, you can take West-Slavia in 2 lifetimes. Actually, I think Bohemia was more difficult in CK2.

[Razorblade]

It's certainly not a Tribal-tier cakewalk, but I don't think it's that bad. Spend your starting money on some men-at-arms, marry off your grandson to Silesia's sister for an alliance once you die, then raid your neighbors, expand your men-at-arms, and steal counties from Gorlitz until you die and can start banging out alliances as your son. At that point, you should be free to take on most of your neighbors.

You have a county with a mine, free access to the Conquest CBs, and a near monopoly on raiding your neighbors. There are certainly worse Feudal starts. In fact, most would be considered worse, imo.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by Tethryss:

867 Start date.
Everything about this start is mediocre.
You are surrounded by more powerful tribal enemies.
Your financial situation is god awful, dreadful and mediocre.
Your military power is utterly pathetic.
If you don't create your own dynasty, the heirs in the beginning are utter garbage.
If you surrender your independence for protection, you now have to claw your way into independence from all of Germany, which figures its crap out after about 70 years.
Expansion east is not an option.
Expansion west is a nightmare.
Expansion north without strong alliances is a nightmare.
Expansion south is difficult and everyone around you is stronger than you.

Seriously, screw this duchy.

Are you crazy?

Bohemia is the best Duchy in the entire Game, there is no other Duchy, who can give you more Gold and Troops as Bohemia and the Key is, to correctly build up the Duchy.

No second Cities(Mayors only give 20%, even a feudal Baron pays more) or Temples, it is always a waste of money, build Castles instead, because an potential Enemy has to siege every Castle before they control the County and Bohemia has a lot potential Castle Baronies with very good Terrain for them.

And you get an Mine and University, together in 1 Duchy.

[spasti696969]

Stack heavy infantry Men at Arms and only raise your Marms for war to lead your allies. The gold you're spending on raising levies in the early game is crippling.