Crusader Kings III

Crusader Kings III

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Sleepysteve May 30, 2023 @ 9:16pm
Infuriating game
I just spent hours forming Sweden I had most of Sweden and Denmark under my control. On my third heir..... Guy slipped and felll getting out of the bathtub once...... No problem. Literally 2 mins later he ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ slips getting out of the tub again.... Gets a trait which IS LIKE -6 TO EVERY FCKN STAT. He is now extremely mentally retarded because his confidence is so shaken by not being able to get out of the tub alone. So my brother tries to take the throne. I lose our version of 900 ad rap battle so brother now rules the tiny kingdom of Sweden which were his former holdings. I am now the King of Denmark for reasons....

I quit the game. That was the most INCREDIBLY idiotic thing I have ever experienced in a "strategy game".
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Showing 1-15 of 72 comments
Bathtubs are forbidden by Ásatrú, you were cursed. :sayaka_DGR:
broartwar May 30, 2023 @ 9:46pm 
RNG is the devil. I am currently mad at this game as well... but i always come back

It is one of the most frustrating (but enjoyable) games i have played
Last edited by broartwar; May 30, 2023 @ 9:46pm
Duilf May 30, 2023 @ 10:13pm 
These Devs leave in depth details about their updates on their news feed. I highly suggest everyone reads them before trying the new content. What you are describing is part of a new feature that can be modified in the rule called random harm which includes an off setting that doesn't disable achievements. How they work is the character gets a warning event which opens them up to the hazard event which can kill them or make them incapable.

Edit: PS oh right as they mention in their "diaries" if you leave them on there are random harm events for commanders, and setting up someone as a commander counts as their warning event.

PPS no I don't particularly like this feature ether, but one of the biggest complaints people have previously given the game is the game world is too safe.
Last edited by Duilf; May 30, 2023 @ 10:16pm
Jet May 30, 2023 @ 11:42pm 
damn are harm events that bad? hmmm im reconsidering updating now since if i add to an ongoing save i cant change the harm ruleset
Scrapper-Lock May 31, 2023 @ 3:54am 
I don't think the problem here is random harm... It's that the game seems to give one the same events over and over again. I understand that this can happen randomly, but I am not sure pure reliance on a simple RNG is the right way to go with events. They should have some sort of tracking code that prohibits the game from giving you the same event 2x in a row, especially if it is a strange or unusual event like slipping and getting hurt in the bathtub. What are the odds this would happen not just once, but twice, and not just twice, but twice in rapid succession... unless the character has a trait like "Extremely clumsy" or something?

I played CK2 a lot. I'm new to CK3... new enough that I'm still only about 15 hours in and, since I play it on the slowest setting (to get my bearings), it seems to me like just in the 1st generation of my 1st ruler, I have seen the same handful of events over and over again. I have like 7 kids, and I think either 6 or all 7 of them have gotten the event where they sneak off to read the bible, aren't sure they understand it, and you get (the same) 3 options to let them be "content" or for them to lose the "content" trait and swap to one of 2 other traits. When this happened to one kid, OK, cool. But when it happens to 6 or 7 kids in a row, it just becomes stupid.

I've also gone on several hunts, and the same exact events fire on every hunt... At some point on the trip I will
1. find a hot girl in a shack, and have a chance to cheat on my wife...
2. meet a wandering knight who challenges me to a duel that I can fight or have my knight fight
3. meet a seer in a tent and have the chance to have my fortune told or hire him to court

These three things happen on literally every trip. Then when I get to the hunt, someone will be found smelling the flowers instead of hunting, and I will have the chance to tell him to stop, tell him he's right, or accuse him of witchcraft, etc. I've done maybe 6 hunts, and this has happened again, every SINGLE time. And it's not the same person every time... it's a random member of the hunting party, doing the same thing as some different random member of the hunting party did last year on a different hunt. Over, and over, and over again.

Here again, it's not the outcome that matters. Sometimes the outcomes are quite favorable. It's the lack of variety, and the fact that although the game, yes, is unrealistic and comedic, this level of extreme silliness just saps it of any credibility at all as a strategy game. What are the odds that I'm going to meet a girl to romance on EVERY trip? That someone from a hunt is going to smell the flowers on EVERY hunt?

I've kept playing so far through this first generation in the hopes that maybe some of this is triggered by character traits, and when I get a new ruler, since my heir has different traits, I will at least see a different set of repetitive RNG events (?). But if these same handful of events keep happening over and over again, I don't see how anyone could endure even a single play-through of this game to the 1400s, let alone multiple ones. How do any of you stand it?
Last edited by Scrapper-Lock; May 31, 2023 @ 3:55am
Harris May 31, 2023 @ 4:29am 
Originally posted by Sleepysteve:
I quit the game. That was the most INCREDIBLY idiotic thing I have ever experienced in a "strategy game".

So I started a new game as Rurik with the goal of taking over Neustria and then flipping the whole France to Norman culture. I start as usual by raiding a bit to amass the wealth for mercenaries to give me the edge, I do a few hunts and tours so I can spend 4k prestige on Concubines for my Norman culture before adopting Catholicism (pope's allowing divorce gets a middle finger).

Having conquered Neustria and Brittany, I get the event that Rurik almost gets slain in a practice fight. I am like "okay, I'm screwed". But guess what, I am not! Because I also have this wonderful thing called "Friends and Foes" installed. And what does this mean? This means that when I declare an invasion war against the whole kingdom of France, Rurik gets assassinated. Take that, you stupid harm event!

Of course, with Friends and Foes being itself, Rurik's heir Helgi gets assassinated in a couple years. Then Helgi's heiress Skuld gets assassinated in a couple years. Then I get to play as her infant son and give up my crown of France to a claimant faction for some random duke in Italy.

Right now I am sitting back developing the economically viable duchy of Valois and enjoying France doing its whole "failed state" thingy with kings changing every 6 months due to constant infighting.

Goes to show how pointless is elaborate planning in ck3 since it constantly goes out of its way to disrupt what you're doing.

At least I still got my Norman culture with Concubines.
Last edited by Harris; May 31, 2023 @ 4:32am
Monkey89brains May 31, 2023 @ 5:18am 
Originally posted by Jet:
damn are harm events that bad? hmmm im reconsidering updating now since if i add to an ongoing save i cant change the harm ruleset
They seem to happen a lot, and they default to the dangerous setting, which is the standard, I like the concept but they happen far too frequently. If you were not following the dev diaries it would be a nasty shock for sure.

I had 3 family members in a row die of choking on their dinner, while every brother in the family became incapable within years of being landed. Half the kingdom was incapable too. I'm going to try a run on illusion of safety which reduces the rate, but if it still happens too much you can set the rule to safe to turn it off. Apparently they can only have a chance of happening once every 50 years has passed per family since the last time with a 50% chance of the omen leading to a death, but currently they seem to happen exactly 50 years apart.

It's an interesting system but it might need fine tuning.
Last edited by Monkey89brains; May 31, 2023 @ 5:21am
Scrapper-Lock May 31, 2023 @ 5:36am 
I had 3 family members in a row die of choking on their dinner

This is what I mean about the random events. Having 3 family members die due to some kind of event, is fine, it's part of Crusader Kings. Having 3 in a row die to the same very unlikely event, just should not be coded into ANY game.

They need an algorithm that checks past random events of each type, and if you roll up the same one, it should automatically re-roll the # of times the event has happened before, and only re-trigger it if it comes up again.

So a simple example, let's say (for the sake of argument, I don't know how it's coded) that the "A Random Event Occurs" trigger comes up, and it randomly selects from a list of 10 things, one of which is "Chokes on food and dies." That's a 10% chance. It then should log that as the last event.

The next time "A Random Event Occurs", if it rolls "chokes on food and dies" again, it should re-roll, and only accept it if the re-roll comes up the same way. This is a 1% chance.

The next time, the game has a record that this event has come up 2x in a row. If it happens again, the game re-rolls, and if it still comes up, re-rolls, and only takes it if it comes up all 3 times in a row. This is a 0.1% chance.

If they just implemented this very simple algorithm, the chance of having 3 characters in a row choke on food the same way, or 6 children in a row all sneak a look at the bible, would be vanishingly small.
Last edited by Scrapper-Lock; May 31, 2023 @ 5:36am
Monkey89brains May 31, 2023 @ 6:18am 
Originally posted by Scrapper-Lock:
I had 3 family members in a row die of choking on their dinner

This is what I mean about the random events. Having 3 family members die due to some kind of event, is fine, it's part of Crusader Kings. Having 3 in a row die to the same very unlikely event, just should not be coded into ANY game.

They need an algorithm that checks past random events of each type, and if you roll up the same one, it should automatically re-roll the # of times the event has happened before, and only re-trigger it if it comes up again.

So a simple example, let's say (for the sake of argument, I don't know how it's coded) that the "A Random Event Occurs" trigger comes up, and it randomly selects from a list of 10 things, one of which is "Chokes on food and dies." That's a 10% chance. It then should log that as the last event.

The next time "A Random Event Occurs", if it rolls "chokes on food and dies" again, it should re-roll, and only accept it if the re-roll comes up the same way. This is a 1% chance.

The next time, the game has a record that this event has come up 2x in a row. If it happens again, the game re-rolls, and if it still comes up, re-rolls, and only takes it if it comes up all 3 times in a row. This is a 0.1% chance.

If they just implemented this very simple algorithm, the chance of having 3 characters in a row choke on food the same way, or 6 children in a row all sneak a look at the bible, would be vanishingly small.


I feel like the standard chance for ANY event on Dangerous needs to be like 1 or 2% chance for events to fire. Half the kingdom in my current game is incompetent. I really do not want to turn it off since I like the idea of random deaths and accidents happening at any time, it adds to the immersion and variability of the game, but I think even at Illusion of Safety with half the chance it will be too frequent still.

Currently it doesn't feel like it adds variability, the omens are just the new 'Know Yourself' perk. "Oh! The omen popped, time to start preparing for succession I guess!"
Last edited by Monkey89brains; May 31, 2023 @ 6:21am
spasti696969 (Banned) May 31, 2023 @ 6:55am 
I just got this on a 77 year old ruler, had to commit suicide.

It's tough, but they added it because going elderly was something of an overpowered meta strategy. Before this newest patch I would always go into Medicine around age 45 and then fill out Scholar and Faithful once I hit Whole of Body. Living until 95-100 years old is worth far more than anything you can get from the other trees. And picking up something like Infirm is relatively minor compared to having 4 or 5 perk trees filled out.

But now I may have to rethink that strategy. If I put a point into Know Thyself and then have to commit suicide because I slipped in the shower, that's a wasted point. If I had put it in, say, Avarice, instead, I'd be dead at the same time but would have more money.

Give it a few days to let the frustration wear off. Go play something else for a bit. Think on it. You'll be back, with a new strategy and a better idea of how to prepare for hardship. It's frustrating in the moment, but starting over is actually the best part of the game.

The best part of this whole story that I almost forgot to mention is that I needed to hold Norway for 30 years to form the North Sea Empire, and she got Incapable 1 year after I formed the Empire. Barely made it by the skin of my teeth. I'll be honest, if I had missed that one I'd probably be throwing the computer at the wall right now.
Last edited by spasti696969; May 31, 2023 @ 7:04am
VoiD May 31, 2023 @ 8:22am 
Still waiting for 100% genius-murdering-dysentery to come back.
Monkey89brains May 31, 2023 @ 8:22am 
Originally posted by spasti696969:
I just got this on a 77 year old ruler, had to commit suicide.

It's tough, but they added it because going elderly was something of an overpowered meta strategy. Before this newest patch I would always go into Medicine around age 45 and then fill out Scholar and Faithful once I hit Whole of Body. Living until 95-100 years old is worth far more than anything you can get from the other trees. And picking up something like Infirm is relatively minor compared to having 4 or 5 perk trees filled out.

But now I may have to rethink that strategy. If I put a point into Know Thyself and then have to commit suicide because I slipped in the shower, that's a wasted point. If I had put it in, say, Avarice, instead, I'd be dead at the same time but would have more money.

Give it a few days to let the frustration wear off. Go play something else for a bit. Think on it. You'll be back, with a new strategy and a better idea of how to prepare for hardship. It's frustrating in the moment, but starting over is actually the best part of the game.

The best part of this whole story that I almost forgot to mention is that I needed to hold Norway for 30 years to form the North Sea Empire, and she got Incapable 1 year after I formed the Empire. Barely made it by the skin of my teeth. I'll be honest, if I had missed that one I'd probably be throwing the computer at the wall right now.

It's not changed the strategy, the omen just now acts as the Know Thyself popup. When the omen pops I just start preparing for succession now because I know it is unlikely I pass the 10 or 20% roll to survive. The difference is I don't have to spend a perk point for Know Thyself anymore.

If anything it has made the Know Thyself strategy better, since as you said, I can just take another perk tree now instead of investing in the medicine one. It only rolls once per family every 50 years, if I get the pop up before 45, I can just skip medicine completely.

It just pops too frequently, if it happened quicker and less frequently it would actually be a "oh crap, I wasn't ready for that. Time to change my strategy. What a cool rpg moment" moment. As it is now though its just a random frustrating death and a "free succession coming soon" popup. It also absolutely decimates the AI with all the incompetent rulers everywhere now.
Last edited by Monkey89brains; May 31, 2023 @ 8:26am
Arson Aardvark May 31, 2023 @ 8:49am 
I formed the Kingdom of Scotland and some extra titles in Ireland and Iceland, ruled for 100 years as strict Asatru faithful. A Catholic drunken heiress takes over and I not only lose everything, but she has no heirs and it's game over within months of taking over the Kingdom when my last remaining title somehow disappears. I'm still not sure what happened, I imagine the guy installed on the throne revoked it.

Catholicism - not even once!
Harris May 31, 2023 @ 8:52am 
Originally posted by spasti696969:
Living until 95-100 years old is worth far more than anything you can get from the other trees.

Okay, now here is the thing. First PDX created mechanics that heavily incentivize living until 95-100 years such as Graceful Aging, Long Reign bonuses and more Lifestyle perks many of which are powerful. Then they realized there's actually no reason not to live longer if you can do it (makes sense, right) so everyone does it.

From there, the logical solution would be to balance the potential gains as you age. Elder Kings 2 understands that if your character lives forever, then severe debuffs to lifestyle xp gain should be a thing. Something along these lines could be done. What PDX did instead is invalidating mechanics entirely with a random dice roll. Your argument is essentially that a lack of strategy is a strategy of and in itself.

However, my firm belief is whenever there's random involved, there can be no strategy. You need to have a clear understanding that action A will lead to outcome B. Of course, random is the inevitable part of the game, but for the most part it served as just a temporary setback - if your 95% chance murder scheme failed, you can do another one and succeed eventually, but if the game decides you need to randomly fall off the stairs then it's over. Random progress wipes got very little to do with actual difficulty, it's plain bad game design.

The fact you can get an arbitrary progress wipe at any point largely invalidates many of the game's pillars - what's the point of congenital traits? of raising a perfect heir? of developing your character over time? If the game can throw you a middle finger at any moment.

The explanation we got from Trinexx is harm events are a product of someone's "personal development time", but I struggle to understand why a pet project needed to make it into the actual build? And if that was a conscious design choice, approved by everyone who should have approved it, then what was the logic and intent behind it?
spasti696969 (Banned) May 31, 2023 @ 9:03am 
Originally posted by Harris:
However, my firm belief is whenever there's random involved, there can be no strategy.

Well that would certainly depend on the context. If it's a card game like War, where you're just flipping over cards at random, then obviously there's no strategy there. But on the other hand in Poker you have to use risk assessment. You look at the cards that have been revealed, the cards in your hand, the way your opponent is betting. If you're playing in person you read their body language. And then you put all that together in your head and make an executive decision. There's certainly strategy involved in that.
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Date Posted: May 30, 2023 @ 9:16pm
Posts: 72