Fabricating hooks.. barbaric

[nocforweb]

I think I am missing something.. wanted to get rid of some vassals (took over an empire) and didn't want to incur tyranny by just revoking their titles. So I thought 'hey, lets fabricate a hook' (since searching for secrets is too random as to whose secrets you get).

90% chance success, 95% secrecy, tried it three times, each time "Scribe! We have letters to compose!" and it is an act of tyranny. The thing I was trying to avoid.

Am I just getting Really unlucky with the RNG or am I missing how this mechanism works? Is there a proper way to create these hooks secretly / depose of vassals to reclaim their titles?

[GenocidalVirus]

Not easily, fabricating hooks are better for trying to get someone to do something for you. So perhaps you could marry them into someone, which would change their inheritance and then assassinate them.

[Duilf]

Hooks are not legally binding. Instead of fabricating hooks on people fabricate claims on the land you are trying to take from them.

[Jet]

if you want to revoke tyranny free make sure you arent pluralist and they are of an evil religion. or set your chaplain to fabricate claim and then you can revoke without incurring it

[nocforweb]

Huh - fabricating a claim would let me take away their territory? I had not even considered using that within my own territory, good to know!

[nocforweb]

So just to make sure I'm getting it - fabricating claim is meant to give you tyranny (ie its a last ditch sort've thing, not something you're really meant to use)?

[Duilf]

A claim is a legal right to a title. There might be some penalties if they discover you making a false claim, and they might still declare war when you try to take their lands. However it will be legal to do so therefor no tyranny will happen, and taking a title when you have a claim on it will have far fewer repercussions.

[spasti696969]

The main thing you can do with Fabricate Hook is combine it with Golden Obligations and Gift. Then you can fabricate a hook, give someone a gift, and demand the money back.

It's an easy way to break up factions.

[The Former]

To be honest, the main thing I use Fabricate Claim for is recruiting or tipping the scales when someone wouldn't accept a key marriage otherwise.

[nocforweb]

Oh that is really good to know - kk, I'll try the claim and then I'll look into golden obligations when I can switch paths! Thank you :)

[Jet]

Originally posted by Lockfågel, Paradoxriddaren:

To be honest, the main thing I use Fabricate Claim for is recruiting or tipping the scales when someone wouldn't accept a key marriage otherwise.

how does having a claim on someone get them to accept marriage? is that in actual acceptance opinion boost???

[The Former]

Originally posted by Jet:

Originally posted by Lockfågel, Paradoxriddaren:

To be honest, the main thing I use Fabricate Claim for is recruiting or tipping the scales when someone wouldn't accept a key marriage otherwise.

how does having a claim on someone get them to accept marriage? is that in actual acceptance opinion boost???

If I remember correctly, using a hook gives an acceptance boost not from opinion but because they owe you. I'm forgetting how big the boost is off hand. But I know for sure that if you use the hook to recruit someone so you can control their marriage, that works. It's how I got my dynasty in control of England once.

It turned out that my dynasty's recognized bastard somehow became the last remaining heir to the king of England (I was in Brittany). So I used my dynastic head hook to get him to Brittany, pushed a matrilineal marriage with my daughter, and bam. In tne years, England's heirs were of my dynasty.

[Jet]

Originally posted by Lockfågel, Paradoxriddaren:

Originally posted by Jet:

how does having a claim on someone get them to accept marriage? is that in actual acceptance opinion boost???

If I remember correctly, using a hook gives an acceptance boost not from opinion but because they owe you. I'm forgetting how big the boost is off hand. But I know for sure that if you use the hook to recruit someone so you can control their marriage, that works. It's how I got my dynasty in control of England once.

It turned out that my dynasty's recognized bastard somehow became the last remaining heir to the king of England (I was in Brittany). So I used my dynastic head hook to get him to Brittany, pushed a matrilineal marriage with my daughter, and bam. In tne years, England's heirs were of my dynasty.

oh you meant fabricate hook, not fabricate claim councilor action. I was about to say. That would honestly be a decent addition to the game though. At least to be on par with the paltry +5 from learning language. If it results in an alliance it would make some sense.

[kalanyr]

Strong hook use is automatic marriage acceptance except for marrying the current incumbent and their first 2 (might be 3, dynasty heirs) if the lineality of the marriage would make it leave their dynasty.

[The Former]

Originally posted by Jet:

Originally posted by Lockfågel, Paradoxriddaren:

If I remember correctly, using a hook gives an acceptance boost not from opinion but because they owe you. I'm forgetting how big the boost is off hand. But I know for sure that if you use the hook to recruit someone so you can control their marriage, that works. It's how I got my dynasty in control of England once.

It turned out that my dynasty's recognized bastard somehow became the last remaining heir to the king of England (I was in Brittany). So I used my dynastic head hook to get him to Brittany, pushed a matrilineal marriage with my daughter, and bam. In tne years, England's heirs were of my dynasty.

oh you meant fabricate hook, not fabricate claim councilor action. I was about to say. That would honestly be a decent addition to the game though. At least to be on par with the paltry +5 from learning language. If it results in an alliance it would make some sense.

Oh! Haha, yeah, we got mixed up. I use hooks to do this, not claims. :)

[spasti696969]

Originally posted by nocforweb:

90% chance success, 95% secrecy, tried it three times, each time "Scribe! We have letters to compose!" and it is an act of tyranny. The thing I was trying to avoid.

Am I just getting Really unlucky with the RNG or am I missing how this mechanism works? Is there a proper way to create these hooks secretly / depose of vassals to reclaim their titles?

I missed this part at first. yea there's usually something that comes along with completing a Fabricate Hook. If you use a priest you lose piety, if you embarrass them you spend prestige, etc. The ones that give you tyranny or opinion loss are the most onerous.

Early game I usually combine Fabricate Hook with Golden Obligations because it's some fast and easy money. Extort people instead of killing them. But if you have a year to spend on it you can also use a hook to force somebody to accept a marriage or come to your court.

This is really a corner case for me though. The main thing for fabricating hooks is getting money out of Golden Obligations. You can also take Gift from diplomacy and get a huge opinion boost from them, then just take the money back with the hook. This is the easiest way to break up troublesome factions, by far. Get the leader to be +50 with you and he leaves the faction, which almost always disbands after.

If you're trying to revoke from a vassal: The easiest thing to do is just wait for adultery. If someone gets caught in a tryst, you get an option to press a button that says "This crime cannot go unpunished. Guards!". This button has a 100% success chance on imprison, regardless of all other factors. Once they're in your clutches you can do as you wish with them. I love imprisonment and the Dread tree in general. Very unappreciated and underutilized, in my opinion.