Building Strategy in County Holdings

[Falkeep]

I have multiple (baronial-level) holdings in each county, as all of us do. I want to know how best to build up those holdings. Do the buildings need to be duplicated for each holding (i.e. -- do I need to put fields in each holding to have enough food for the entire holding)? I'm not seeing the documentation that tells me which buildings only have a barony-wide effect (they effect only the holding they are constructed in), have a barony-wide effect (I only need one of that type of a building in each county), a duchy-wide effect (I only need one within each de jour duchy... not counting special duchy buildings), and a kingdom or empire-wide effect (I just need one of them somewhere within my kingdom).

For example, to get the "superior horses" option (for traveling and such) I just need one stable that has reached a "courier station" level to be able to have superior horses no matter which county I'm in to start a journey. Does that mean that I only need one stable somewhere in my kingdom to gain all of the benefits everywhere?

I'm not talking about putting fields or barracks or anything in every building slot in a barony (if the game even allows that... I've never tried it or want to), I'm talking about building to develop my counties in the most efficient / effective way. Is it enough to focus one barony on producing food, one on blacksmiths, workshops, etc., one on military buildings and so on or do I need to have some of each of them in each barony because their effects only apply to the barony they are built in. Does that make sense what I'm asking?

Also, for castle holdings, do I need or should I build forts and/or walls and bastions in those baronies or does the castle take care of that and building them for them is just a waste of time and money because they add nothing new to the holding?

[SDxEair]

Do you want development to progress as fast as possible? Build as many harbors / guilds(city only) / manors(farmlands only) / orchards(floodplains / oasis only) as you can. Since guilds are city only I also build as many cities as I can in empty slots.

After that build buildings that improve the men at arms stationed at the barony.(most MAA buildings only improve the one stationed at the barony) And yea, don't believe things like superior horses stack, but if you have cavalry MAA you will probably want to have a stable at the location they are stationed anyways, since they also improve those MAA.

You only really need to build forts / walls if you have a MAA stationed there that they will improve, otherwise its probably better to focus income / development. The best defense is really a strong economy and offense imo.

It can also be beneficial to find holdings with good special building options and move your capitol to them, if your current holdings don't have any.

[Harris]

Originally posted by Falkeep:

Is it enough to focus one barony on producing food, one on blacksmiths, workshops, etc., one on military buildings and so on or do I need to have some of each of them in each barony because their effects only apply to the barony they are built in. Does that make sense what I'm asking?

I'm going to oversimplify it for you. All buildings you build in baronies fall into one of the two broad categories:
- economical buildings (= give you gold)
- military buildings (= give you levies and bonuses for men at arms)

You basically pick one and stick to it. If you're going economical, then you might as well build everything that boosts your tax income. But if you're going military, you consider which kind of troops you are going to station there, and build things that buff that. In the late game you get enough slots to afford both though, so it's mostly an early choice what to prioritize.

The strategy choice mostly depends on what you have to work with - the counties are not born equal. If you have farmlands terrain and/or powerful special building slots for mines or cathedrals then you're better off building for economy and development. Meanwhile if you don't get such benefits then you might get more value from military buildup.

Mixing and matching is possible, yet kind of counter-productive. If you have a county with 5 farmlands baronies, you'll want to have them all as moneymakers. And if you're going military, then you need a specialized barony for every of your regiments - having just one wouldn't get you far.

Originally posted by Falkeep:

Does that mean that I only need one stable somewhere in my kingdom to gain all of the benefits everywhere?

As long as that "somewhere" is actually in your domain - yes. However, superior horses is not the only benefit of the stables, so you might want to build several if you're boosting a cavalry-based army.

Originally posted by Falkeep:

Also, for castle holdings, do I need or should I build forts and/or walls and bastions in those baronies or does the castle take care of that and building them for them is just a waste of time and money because they add nothing new to the holding?

There is something called Fort Level - and the value from defensive buildings in a barony adds to the value of the castle itself - so it's never a waste. Actually, it's a pretty good idea to throw in some defensive buildings in your realm capital to make siege rushing you less trivial.

Further reading - https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Building

[Falkeep]

Thank you both. I appreciate the input.

[Falkeep]

I'm going to bring this up again.

With a lot of constant / ongoing building in my game, I want to ask for information from more experienced players. I have read all of the building descriptions, but I'm wanting to ask about the learned lessons that aren't included in the descriptions.

For those who would ask, I am not going for a straight military or economic power base, I am going for a balance between the two. I have no real interest in world domination, I just want my own realm (in this case, Britannia and Brittany) with enough power to keep most aggressors away and enough money to build everything up to their highest levels. What I have slowly drifted into as my own game progressed is using castle building slots for just military buildings (barracks, militia, stables, workshops, etc.) and city / temple buildings for farms and other non-military buildings. Maybe when I have completely filled out my building slots and maxed out all levels, I will get more aggressive myself, and I will want the power to wage war AND to pay for it. So, with that in mind, I have a few specific questions.

1.) Obviously there are buildings that can be built in any holding (farms... regular farms, hill farms, wet farms, etc.). Which ones should be built in each holding, which ones just need one per county (countywide effects, like windmills), and ones per realm. In other words, just because I CAN build something, do I need to. If, for example, I have two cities in a county, do they both need farms / food production or does what is grown in one "feed" the whole county? Do I need workshops in every / multiple holdings in a single county? Do I need fortifications and outposts? If so, do I need them for every holding I can build them in? Do I need more than one workshop in each county? What is advantageous to have more than one of in each holding and what are wastes of time / money / building slots, especially in counties

2.) Now, when I started, I didn't realized that windmills / watermills can only be built in county capitals... which means that one slot has to be used for the limited number of building slots in my main castle in each county (I really wish that, if the developers were going to make that restriction that they would add a dedicated box (like the ones for Duchy Buildings) for each county capital), first, are they worth it and, second, all things being equal (like extreme weather) and assuming that I am able to build both, is one preferable over the others? Should I build one of each (and lose a second building slot for them)?

3.) For duchy buildings, some, like the tax offices say that they are only effective in the county (duchy?) in which they are built? So, should I build more than one? If so, how do I prioritize them against other duchy buildings that I need at least one of in my realm (like military academies, I assume)? What duchy buildings do I need to make sure I have at least one of and which are not worth having?

4.) When I started, I was putting buildings like fields in every holding and I built them to the max levels available to me at this time. Now, as I am looking at being more strategic AND at the limited number of building slots for castles and temples, should I tear them out and devote those spaces to buildings that are more geared to the function of those holdings?

5.) For monasteries, guilds, warrior lodges, etc. In counties where I have more that one of a particular type of holding, should I build one of those in each of those multiple holdings (i.e. -- a guild in every city, a monastery in each temple, etc.) I am also using a building slot in my temples for warrior lodges; do I need more than one in each county? Or, if I am building barracks and militia buildings for each castle, do I need to use another castle building slot for a warrior lodge? Or are they even worth building in the first place?

6.) What about ports? Should I build one in every holding in which they are available, or does having more than one in a county reduce the effectiveness of having a single port in the county?

7.) I have found two building descriptions that include the word "province" (outposts, and royal reserves), but I can't find that term described, itself. If it says "province," does it mean a county or a duchy?

That should be enough to start with. Any help understanding building strategies better would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[Falkeep]

FYI, here is my current strategy for buildings...

My "typical" build out for a temple is: (1) monastery, (2) fields), (3) pastures, (4) hunting lodges, and (5) blacksmith (except in hills, where I build warrior lodges). Do temples get additional building slots at some point?

My "typical" build out for a (county capital) castle is: (1) fortifications, (2) barracks, (3) militias, (4) stables, (5) workshops), (6) wind or water mills. Do castles get additional building slots at some point?

My "typical" build out for other castles (with their own barons) is: (1) fortifications, (2) outposts, (3) barracks, (4) militias, (5) stables. Do THESE castles get additional building slots eventually? Would workshops be better to build here instead of outposts? Or warrior lodges?

I know that cities do get more building slots as the game progresses so I'm not overly concerned about them in the end but, what should be prioritized before other buildings? Every city is getting (in the early game): (1) guilds, (2) fortifications, (3) fields, (4) pastures, (5) still deciding... ports, when available, outposts or blacksmiths when ports are not available.

Also, how should the more limited buildings, like forestry, be prioritized?

[Johnny]

My strategy is holding as many Capital Counties as possible since they have 1 additional slot to build, don't waste your time holding baronies. If possible choose a good Duchy (Sardinia for example) something that has at least 1 special building slot.

Now you'll have 6 slots to work with, I usually go with 1 for fortifications (if they match my MAA, if not go for 1 additional economic building) 3 for gold and 2 for military (main MAA building plus blacksmith).

Also I would recommend that you go to the wiki and explore what buildings are possible to construct depending on terrain, because you can do some really optimized builds that in some cases can benefit both your military and economy, for example plains and farmlands for heavy cavalry builds, drylands for heavy infantry etc.

[Vicboss]

Baronies are typically not worth holding, stick to holding the county capitals. As for what to build, I typically rush economic buildings early, then start building military buildings in any slots that are left over after you have all the economy buildings done first. Money wins wars, even if your domain is small, mercenaries can help you beat larger enemies until you are the strongest power in the region. You should also avoid spending money on building upgrades you do not directly control unless there is a tangible benefit to doing so over upgrading your own demesne holdings.

By this, I mean don't waste money upgrading cities or temples, and certainly don't waste money upgrading castles in a county you control but don't directly own the castle. Cultural perks make some difference here, for example, there is a cultural tradition that whenever you build or upgrade a temple that is in a county you DIRECTLY control, you will receive renown for it. No point building temples until you have something similar to that making it worthwhile to do so.

I will HIGHLY recommend that you check out the economic map layer (I believe the hotkey for it is either ctrl+s or alt+s, can't exactly remember), as it will also show you landmarks that will greatly benefit you personally if the holding is part of your demesne, for example, Stonehenge, or the Great Pyramid. There are many of these 'special buildings' and they are worth holding personally. Browse the map layer and scroll over the buildings to see if you can benefit from their bonuses, as some are locked to specific religions. Others may need to be built by you or others as they do not all start created on the map, such as a great temple, which can only be built in the temple of your religion's holy sites, or universities that require a specific level of development before they can be built. If you are catholic, you can build a grand temple in the holy sites of your faith, but not of others. The economic map layer will tell you if you can build a particular special building just by mousing over the icons of the buildings.

[SDxEair]

Note that if you find a barony that is better than it's county capitol(typically due to it having a special building), you can switch the county capitol to it.

[Vicboss]

Originally posted by SDxEair:

Note that if you find a barony that is better than it's county capitol(typically due to it having a special building), you can switch the county capitol to it.

Rare, but could be useful, most are already in the capital, although some can't be used by you no matter what, as they are cities and Republican rulers are not in the game yet as playable to my knowledge. There are two such cities in Italy, with one of them being Venice.

[Falkeep]

What about windmills versus water wheels? If you can build either in a location, which one is the better to go with? Or, is there a value in building both?

Also, is there any value in buildings like warrior lodges or regimental grounds?

What about outposts?

And should I put ports in more than one holding in a county, or just one per county?

[Vicboss]

Originally posted by Falkeep:

What about windmills versus water wheels? If you can build either in a location, which one is the better to go with? Or, is there a value in building both?

Also, is there any value in buildings like warrior lodges or regimental grounds?

What about outposts?

And should I put ports in more than one holding in a county, or just one per county?

whichever one gives more development which iirc is windmills. The value of military buildings is secondary to economy for me. As a rule, if I can build something that increases my gold, I will build that over a military building. Not sure the exact names of the military buildings but 9/10 times it's better to build things that give you gold or development, or both, over anything that gives you more levies. Ports will stack, but as I said earlier, I won't build anything unless I own the county, and I won't build in any baronies in that same county, just the capital, which I own. As for development, you can easily use your steward, along with some perks from the Learning focus lifestyle to massively boost a counties development to the point you should really only focus on developing your capital. My current game I am in the year 1100 and my capital's development is already 77/100, and I even switched capitals to a lower developed county than my original capital.

[Сааребас]

Early game, I always go for development, which also increases my gold.

However, pastures don't hold up to barracks(?) Since the first type of MaA I go after are two HI then LC.
(HI to win battles, LC for pursuit a.k.a. after battle kills).

So instead of getting as much income as possible, I rather invest in my MaA buildings because winning battles often means winning wars.

Winning battles and wars (prisoners and gold+prestige) gains you usually far more than the little boost in income.

The best optimized strategy is playing wide with as many counties in primary duchy as possible.
One barony (capitol)
One temple holding
As many cities as possible. (both for development and income)

Do remember that unlike holding types, buildings can actually be swapped. Meaning if you personally hold a title (the holding) you can change the buildings if you choose to (if you have the gold)
Do realize that that building start back at tier 1. So you do have to keep in mind you've got pay for all the upgrades even if the building before was tier 5.


I do want to note that development is only important if you intent of keeping those counties.
Or any other personal interest.

[Vicboss]

Originally posted by пьяница (Сеси):

Early game, I always go for development, which also increases my gold.

However, pastures don't hold up to barracks(?) Since the first type of MaA I go after are two HI then LC.
(HI to win battles, LC for pursuit a.k.a. after battle kills).

So instead of getting as much income as possible, I rather invest in my MaA buildings because winning battles often means winning wars.

Winning battles and wars (prisoners and gold+prestige) gains you usually far more than the little boost in income.

The best optimized strategy is playing wide with as many counties in primary duchy as possible.
One barony (capitol)
One temple holding
As many cities as possible. (both for development and income)

Do remember that unlike holding types, buildings can actually be swapped. Meaning if you personally hold a title (the holding) you can change the buildings if you choose to (if you have the gold)
Do realize that that building start back at tier 1. So you do have to keep in mind you've got pay for all the upgrades even if the building before was tier 5.


I do want to note that development is only important if you intent of keeping those counties.
Or any other personal interest.

Ummm, how are you building for development in the early game considering those buildings don't exist until the later ages? If you're starting in 1066, you're playing a different game than people starting in 867.
As to your points on the superiority of military buildings to economic, you do realize that those buffs to your military are not only unnecessary to overcome your opponents, but can also be easily overcome by any opponent willing to spend money on mercenaries. Which is also something you can do. Realistically, if you're not the strongest nation in the world by around 950 AD starting as the weakest powers in 867 you are doing something wrong. My current campaign is around the year 1100, my military is over 100k troops, the next strongest nations I see have around 1/10th that number.

[Falkeep]

I'm not sure I understand the idea of not building anything in your vassals' holding. Doesn't more development in them mean more money for you? And for castle baronies (besides the capital), don't you want them built up to better protect the county in case of invasion?

[Falkeep]

And what about warrior lodges and regimental grounds?