I hate how cynical this game is about medieval rulers and the period in general

[Mechenyi]

People back then, even rulers, generally weren't complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ constantly trying to murder each other, ♥♥♥♥ everything with a pulse, or use their faith as a tool. Yes, those people existed, but it wasn't the norm, and it wasn't something that was accepted to the extent it is in CK3.

There were countless Christian and Islamic rulers that had a genuine love for their faith and people that they ruled, yet in CK3, having any of the traits which made real life rulers immortalized and respected even by their enemies, is seen as something negative(it gives you positive opinion modifiers, but the good traits are objectively worse than the majority of their negative counterparts), or a front for personal gain. The worst part is that the game has very little(or really any) events or content that doesn't paint this boring cliche.

And yeah, I know PDX isn't going for historical accuracy, but even from a gameplay standpoint, I don't see the fun in making ~60% of rulers sadists, kinslayers, or adulterers. It completely ruins the fun even for when you actually *do* want to be a heartless bastard.

It's honestly weird how a game that's has very little roleplay aspects in it, EU4, has more personalized event chains for rulers than CK3.

[Rex is back, baby!]

I don't understand this post, or the logic behind it.
There's many traits that suggest different personalities. Many good and virtuous, many bad and sinful. I disagree with you. Look at the trait lists and personalities.

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Traits
https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Character

Yea, some traits are horrible for a leader, like shy. Shy causes stress at every interaction. Some, like craven, is bad on paper, but keeps your ruler alive in battles :b.

I have encountered great personalitied rulers that added many nuance to role play; as well as encountered the opposite with evil neighbors.

I've had posterchild ideal heirs, and scum-of-the-earth heirs.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic behind this cynicism. Your feelings are justified, and we all have to rant at times, but this post flew-over-my-head-meme. I don't see it, and i disagree that CK3 treats personalities and traits bad. I think there is great balance between good and bad traits for all five playstyles, too.

If you're going to use an "objectively" argument. Please provide support. It's okay to have subjective opinions, but there's a thick line between objective and subjective.

[Mechenyi]

Originally posted by RE X:

I don't understand this post, or the logic behind it.
There's many traits that suggest different personalities. Many good and virtuous, many bad and sinful. I disagree with you. Look at the trait lists and personalities.

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Traits
https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Character

Yea, some traits are horrible for a leader, like shy. Shy causes stress at every interaction. Some, like craven, is bad on paper, but keeps your ruler alive in battles :b.

I have encountered great personalitied rulers that added many nuance to role play; as well as encountered the opposite with evil neighbors.

I've had posterchild ideal heirs, and scum-of-the-earth heirs.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic behind this cynicism. Your feelings are justified, and we all have to rant at times, but this post flew-over-my-head-meme. I don't see it, and i disagree that CK3 treats personalities and traits bad. I think there is great balance between good and bad traits for all five playstyles, too.

If you're going to use an "objectively" argument. Please provide support. It's okay to have subjective opinions, but there's a thick line between objective and subjective.

"Objectively better" as in, being a deceitful, incestuous and lustful coward is the meta, while being chaste, trusting, brave, or forgiving is a death sentence. Literally and figuratively, since you're more likely to be cucked or just not have children with some of them.

And that's just the gameplay side, I'm also talking about how the events portray your character and their lack of personalization, which again, is worse for even light rp flavor than EU4.

[Rex is back, baby!]

Originally posted by Yurodivyi:

Originally posted by RE X:

I don't understand this post, or the logic behind it.
There's many traits that suggest different personalities. Many good and virtuous, many bad and sinful. I disagree with you. Look at the trait lists and personalities.

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Traits
https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Character

Yea, some traits are horrible for a leader, like shy. Shy causes stress at every interaction. Some, like craven, is bad on paper, but keeps your ruler alive in battles :b.

I have encountered great personalitied rulers that added many nuance to role play; as well as encountered the opposite with evil neighbors.

I've had posterchild ideal heirs, and scum-of-the-earth heirs.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic behind this cynicism. Your feelings are justified, and we all have to rant at times, but this post flew-over-my-head-meme. I don't see it, and i disagree that CK3 treats personalities and traits bad. I think there is great balance between good and bad traits for all five playstyles, too.

If you're going to use an "objectively" argument. Please provide support. It's okay to have subjective opinions, but there's a thick line between objective and subjective.

"Objectively better" as in, being a deceitful, incestuous and lustful coward is the meta, while being chaste, trusting, brave, or forgiving is a death sentence. Literally and figuratively, since you're more likely to be cucked or just not have children with some of them.

And that's just the gameplay side, I'm also talking about how the events portray your character and their lack of personalization, which again, is worse for even light rp flavor than EU4.

As someone who always plays a just or brave character, who has had loyal wives, I disagree. I barely get cucked. I never play the "meta" you suggested. In fact, it's been about three playthroughs since I've seen incest beyond aunt-nephew/uncle-niece (which is legal in the Catholic faith).

There was this one event that my wife did cheat on me, a few playthroughs ago, but it made her get the loyal trait and no baby was born out of her affair... so... *shrug*

Also, if you notice with high level stress events, look at where your character's personality is. It will say "This is you. Sometimes you don't feel like yourself" or something similar, indicating that we, the player, are making our character do stressful things against their personality trait.

In fact, I enjoy playing the empathetic ruler, which this game has allowed me to do. Sometimes forgiveness turns your bitter rivals into the most loyal allies :D

Edit: To be fair, I am an evil cruel human being when it comes to ANYONE with the gluttonous trait. They are are immediately jailed, executed, banished, dismissed, etc. My kingdom's #1 golden rule is Temperate or GTFO. DOWN WITH GLUTTONOUS. Hate that trait xD. Guess all my rulers are fatphobic lmao.

[WhiteWolf_Sp]

There is bugged events that makes your wife , even if she's loyal, your friend and soulmate cheat on you , one of those is releated to feasts and she cheats with your son, also there is that stupid Hunting event that turns your Heir into a killer.

Lets not forget abou how your educated , beautiful and genius Daughters cant stay in court for 1 year after turn 16 or some one leg, fat ,mayor seduce her and turn them into fornicators, the seduction triggers in this game are all messed up and is really stupid, a game about your character and his legacy and all your sons try to kill each other as soon as you die, your daughters turn fornicatiors, deviants that get executed by her husband and your wife that cheats on you with your son.

They know about that for a long time but never fixed because CK3 devs think that memes are more important than fun gameplay.

And yes i understand , if you have a lustful , arbitrary , disloyal , cynical wife or daughter is fair game , but temperate , honest content and most of all just , cmon makes no sense, also how your patient , calm and honest son kill someone out of the blue like that hunting event ? Its take the fun out of the game, i go out of my way to make sure that i dont have any sadistic , lustful or calous person on my court , i educate my children myself and try to pick only the good traits , i try to reform my culture to take traditions that give good traits chance and for what ? For some unavoidable event mess all up ....

[Ashling]

Originally posted by Yurodivyi:

"Objectively better" as in, being a deceitful, incestuous and lustful coward is the meta, while being chaste, trusting, brave, or forgiving is a death sentence. Literally and figuratively, since you're more likely to be cucked or just not have children with some of them.

And that's just the gameplay side, I'm also talking about how the events portray your character and their lack of personalization, which again, is worse for even light rp flavor than EU4.

This is just my opinion, others probably will disagree, but I think Intrigue has gotten seriously nerfed since CK2 (mandatory wait times, less plots, greater restrictions/debuffs especially with the upcoming DLC where everyone can move making them harder to kill); which means the traits backing intrigue aren't as useful as something like brave's martial usefulness. In its place, I think the rest of the attribute system has gotten a huge buff with martial and learning being notably far, far more impactful than what they were in CK2 (although, I suspect a nerf to martial in the near future).

Looking at it from a series perspective, I find it's more important to mix traits in CK3 than it was in CK2.
Looking to the history side, I would rather say, is a bit aggrandizing (which is understandable considering it's a game.)

[Rex is back, baby!]

Originally posted by Sniperwolf_Sp:

There is bugged events that makes your wife , even if she's loyal, your friend and soulmate cheat on you , one of those is releated to feasts and she cheats with your son, also there is that stupid Hunting event that turns your Heir into a killer.

Lets not forget abou how your educated , beautiful and genius Daughters cant stay in court for 1 year after turn 16 or some one leg, fat ,mayor seduce her and turn them into fornicators, the seduction triggers in this game are all messed up and is really stupid, a game about your character and his legacy and all your sons try to kill each other as soon as you die, your daughters turn fornicatiors, deviants that get executed by her husband and your wife that cheats on you with your son.

They know about that for a long time but never fixed because CK3 devs think that memes are more important than fun gameplay.

And yes i understand , if you have a lustful , arbitrary , disloyal , cynical wife or daughter is fair game , but temperate , honest content and most of all just , cmon makes no sense, also how your patient , calm and honest son kill someone out of the blue like that hunting event ? Its take the fun out of the game, i go out of my way to make sure that i dont have any sadistic , lustful or calous person on my court , i educate my children myself and try to pick only the good traits , i try to reform my culture to take traditions that give good traits chance and for what ? For some unavoidable event mess all up ....

For the heir murder event, this is how I logic it.

We don't see the murder, our heir cries innocence. Implications don't hold up in the court of law. There is doubt to the actual murder. Your heir might get a reputation of murderer, but that's only a reputation. Childish gossip in the courtroom.

Most traits you get from actions describe reputation, that does not mean, in actuality, they happened.

What does the murderer even do? Lower opinion. Opinion which is insanely easy to max back up.
.

[Lumku]

Originally posted by Yurodivyi:

People back then, even rulers, generally weren't complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ constantly trying to murder each other, ♥♥♥♥ everything with a pulse, or use their faith as a tool. Yes, those people existed, but it wasn't the norm, and it wasn't something that was accepted to the extent it is in CK3.

There were countless Christian and Islamic rulers that had a genuine love for their faith and people that they ruled, yet in CK3, having any of the traits which made real life rulers immortalized and respected even by their enemies, is seen as something negative(it gives you positive opinion modifiers, but the good traits are objectively worse than the majority of their negative counterparts), or a front for personal gain. The worst part is that the game has very little(or really any) events or content that doesn't paint this boring cliche.

And yeah, I know PDX isn't going for historical accuracy, but even from a gameplay standpoint, I don't see the fun in making ~60% of rulers sadists, kinslayers, or adulterers. It completely ruins the fun even for when you actually *do* want to be a heartless bastard.

It's honestly weird how a game that's has very little roleplay aspects in it, EU4, has more personalized event chains for rulers than CK3.

source "Trust me bro"

[Tomus]

Originally posted by Yurodivyi:

People back then, even rulers, generally weren't complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ constantly trying to murder each other, ♥♥♥♥ everything with a pulse, or use their faith as a tool. Yes, those people existed, but it wasn't the norm, and it wasn't something that was accepted to the extent it is in CK3.

There were countless Christian and Islamic rulers that had a genuine love for their faith and people that they ruled, yet in CK3, having any of the traits which made real life rulers immortalized and respected even by their enemies, is seen as something negative(it gives you positive opinion modifiers, but the good traits are objectively worse than the majority of their negative counterparts), or a front for personal gain. The worst part is that the game has very little(or really any) events or content that doesn't paint this boring cliche.

And yeah, I know PDX isn't going for historical accuracy, but even from a gameplay standpoint, I don't see the fun in making ~60% of rulers sadists, kinslayers, or adulterers. It completely ruins the fun even for when you actually *do* want to be a heartless bastard.

It's honestly weird how a game that's has very little roleplay aspects in it, EU4, has more personalized event chains for rulers than CK3.

I agree.

Not every character has to be from Game of Thrones.

[Rex is back, baby!]

Originally posted by Tomus:

Originally posted by Yurodivyi:

People back then, even rulers, generally weren't complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ constantly trying to murder each other, ♥♥♥♥ everything with a pulse, or use their faith as a tool. Yes, those people existed, but it wasn't the norm, and it wasn't something that was accepted to the extent it is in CK3.

There were countless Christian and Islamic rulers that had a genuine love for their faith and people that they ruled, yet in CK3, having any of the traits which made real life rulers immortalized and respected even by their enemies, is seen as something negative(it gives you positive opinion modifiers, but the good traits are objectively worse than the majority of their negative counterparts), or a front for personal gain. The worst part is that the game has very little(or really any) events or content that doesn't paint this boring cliche.

And yeah, I know PDX isn't going for historical accuracy, but even from a gameplay standpoint, I don't see the fun in making ~60% of rulers sadists, kinslayers, or adulterers. It completely ruins the fun even for when you actually *do* want to be a heartless bastard.

It's honestly weird how a game that's has very little roleplay aspects in it, EU4, has more personalized event chains for rulers than CK3.

I agree.

Not every character has to be from Game of Thrones.

Not every character IS from Game of Thrones. We have Uhtred Uhtredson (The Last Kingdom), Ragnar Lothbrok (Vikings), King Arthur (Monty Python), Mary Stuard (Reign), Henry Tudor (Henry VIII), Robert the Bruce (Outlaw King), etc. etc.

Historical Fiction :3, and this game is Historical Fiction/Alternate History. The only historically accurate date is January 1st, 866 or 1066.

[taomastercu]

Don't worry OP, there's a few games dropping in the next couple years where characters are not interchangeable and/or forgettable and at a minimum that'll force CK3 to step up the game.

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Originally posted by taomastercu:

Don't worry OP, there's a few games dropping in the next couple years where characters are not interchangeable and/or forgettable and at a minimum that'll force CK3 to step up the game.

Such as....?

[kuolleempi]

I just hate the UI, it doesn't fit this kind of game... too modern and 'simplier' than CK2s.