DLC should be FREE and COMPLETELY INTEGRATED into base game within a year of it's release.

[dominicawb]

Paradox should be doing everything they can to avoid the fate of CK2, where the total content exceeds HUNDREDS of dollars. They might be the number ONE influence for video game piracy.

It's so ridiculous, Sseth went on basically a several minute rant/bit just about THAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4txj_8tqA

I am willing to bet that 99% of a DLC's sales occur within the first year of it's release. Anyone who plays the game and WANTS it HAS it by then, wouldn't you think? Sales occur during that time as well.

So the amount of money loss from fully integrating the DLC in as part of the game after one year is up is completely negligible.

Imagine how it would go for a second. Three years from now, the price to get ALL content will remain reasonable while Paradox will still have all of their expected revenue.

You could argue well just wait an extra year for it to be free. Sure, but people are already just DONE with DLC entirely. How many reviews have you seen where people who LIKE CK3 refuse to buy them out of sheer disgust for the price vs content.

This is going to help both the game devs themselves AND modders. Imagine for a second how HARD it is to balance and code for a game that could have 10 or more different DLCs, some of which MASSIVELY shift how the game plays.

The fact is you cant. Making the DLC a fully integrated part of the game helps make the balancing direction of the game more clear, AND will help clear up bugs that result from an odd mismatch of DLC by having one singular build to edit.

[Emperor2000]

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

Paradox should be doing everything they can to avoid the fate of CK2, where the total content exceeds HUNDREDS of dollars. They might be the number ONE influence for video game piracy.

It's so ridiculous, Sseth went on basically a several minute rant/bit just about THAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4txj_8tqA

I am willing to bet that 99% of a DLC's sales occur within the first year of it's release. Anyone who plays the game and WANTS it HAS it by then, wouldn't you think? Sales occur during that time as well.

So the amount of money loss from fully integrating the DLC in as part of the game after one year is up is completely negligible.

Imagine how it would go for a second. Three years from now, the price to get ALL content will remain reasonable while Paradox will still have all of their expected revenue.

You could argue well just wait an extra year for it to be free. Sure, but people are already just DONE with DLC entirely. How many reviews have you seen where people who LIKE CK3 refuse to buy them out of sheer disgust for the price vs content.

This is going to help both the game devs themselves AND modders. Imagine for a second how HARD it is to balance and code for a game that could have 10 or more different DLCs, some of which MASSIVELY shift how the game plays.

The fact is you cant. Making the DLC a fully integrated part of the game helps make the balancing direction of the game more clear, AND will help clear up bugs that result from an odd mismatch of DLC by having one singular build to edit.

You know that there is a better game on the market called Knights of Honor 2: Sovereign, this game has already more features, then CK3 will ever have, because in KoH2, it is possible to grow your Kingdom without War, by using Spies and/or Cultural Influence.

And Armies are never going over 100.000 Troops, the most armies are around 4.000 - 6.000 Troops in KoH2.

[RedStar]

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

Paradox should be doing everything they can to avoid the fate of CK2, where the total content exceeds HUNDREDS of dollars. They might be the number ONE influence for video game piracy.

It's so ridiculous, Sseth went on basically a several minute rant/bit just about THAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4txj_8tqA

I am willing to bet that 99% of a DLC's sales occur within the first year of it's release. Anyone who plays the game and WANTS it HAS it by then, wouldn't you think? Sales occur during that time as well.

So the amount of money loss from fully integrating the DLC in as part of the game after one year is up is completely negligible.

Imagine how it would go for a second. Three years from now, the price to get ALL content will remain reasonable while Paradox will still have all of their expected revenue.

You could argue well just wait an extra year for it to be free. Sure, but people are already just DONE with DLC entirely. How many reviews have you seen where people who LIKE CK3 refuse to buy them out of sheer disgust for the price vs content.

This is going to help both the game devs themselves AND modders. Imagine for a second how HARD it is to balance and code for a game that could have 10 or more different DLCs, some of which MASSIVELY shift how the game plays.

The fact is you cant. Making the DLC a fully integrated part of the game helps make the balancing direction of the game more clear, AND will help clear up bugs that result from an odd mismatch of DLC by having one singular build to edit.

I'm sure Paradox Interactive cry themselves to sleep about this at night. Those 40,00+ players of HOi4 who are buying each DLC that come out must devastate the developers.

Here's a link to an interesting article that should help the OP out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

[calabacina]

I take advantage of this thread to expose an idea that has been running in my head for a while, in many (too many) games I read about people who explain and tell those who made the game how it should sell it. It seems overbearing, at most inform yourself before buying it but it is not up to us to choose the sales model, we at most can decide not to buy it if we do not like it. However, Paradox is not new to this.

[Kimlin]

Publicado originalmente por RedStar:

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

Paradox should be doing everything they can to avoid the fate of CK2, where the total content exceeds HUNDREDS of dollars. They might be the number ONE influence for video game piracy.

It's so ridiculous, Sseth went on basically a several minute rant/bit just about THAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4txj_8tqA

I am willing to bet that 99% of a DLC's sales occur within the first year of it's release. Anyone who plays the game and WANTS it HAS it by then, wouldn't you think? Sales occur during that time as well.

So the amount of money loss from fully integrating the DLC in as part of the game after one year is up is completely negligible.

Imagine how it would go for a second. Three years from now, the price to get ALL content will remain reasonable while Paradox will still have all of their expected revenue.

You could argue well just wait an extra year for it to be free. Sure, but people are already just DONE with DLC entirely. How many reviews have you seen where people who LIKE CK3 refuse to buy them out of sheer disgust for the price vs content.

This is going to help both the game devs themselves AND modders. Imagine for a second how HARD it is to balance and code for a game that could have 10 or more different DLCs, some of which MASSIVELY shift how the game plays.

The fact is you cant. Making the DLC a fully integrated part of the game helps make the balancing direction of the game more clear, AND will help clear up bugs that result from an odd mismatch of DLC by having one singular build to edit.

I'm sure Paradox Interactive cry themselves to sleep about this at night. Those 40,00+ players of HOi4 who are buying each DLC that come out must devastate the developers.

Here's a link to an interesting article that should help the OP out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

CK3 itself has seen a decent increase in player base. The model isn’t an issue although I do disagree with the content direction of the game.

[TigerRus]

I have no issue paying for DLCs that work but 2022 showed us with Paradox the exact opposite

[Ashling]

Publicado originalmente por calabacina:

I take advantage of this thread to expose an idea that has been running in my head for a while, in many (too many) games I read about people who explain and tell those who made the game how it should sell it. It seems overbearing, at most inform yourself before buying it but it is not up to us to choose the sales model, we at most can decide not to buy it if we do not like it. However, Paradox is not new to this.

There's consumer-friendly ways to sell stuff and consumer-unfriendly ways to sell things. I'm sure you wouldn't use this same logic for lootboxes, price manipulation, or increasing the price of a decade old game. Any method of selling something that is dishonest, addictive, inequitable to the consumer, preys upon people's natural behaviors, etc. deserves to be called out. I believe, Paradox has gotten better as a company and is far more fair to their consumers in these recent years, but I can't blame people for being weary about Paradox's past (they've done some pretty shady stuff) and what Paradox might do again.

[Klutch]

ck 2 base game was pretty good, got a lot of us into the franchise

[Kimlin]

Publicado originalmente por Triangle:

Publicado originalmente por calabacina:

I take advantage of this thread to expose an idea that has been running in my head for a while, in many (too many) games I read about people who explain and tell those who made the game how it should sell it. It seems overbearing, at most inform yourself before buying it but it is not up to us to choose the sales model, we at most can decide not to buy it if we do not like it. However, Paradox is not new to this.

There's consumer-friendly ways to sell stuff and consumer-unfriendly ways to sell things. I'm sure you wouldn't use this same logic for lootboxes, price manipulation, or increasing the price of a decade old game. Any method of selling something that is dishonest, addictive, inequitable to the consumer, preys upon people's natural behaviors, etc. deserves to be called out. I believe, Paradox has gotten better as a company and is far more fair to their consumers in these recent years, but I can't blame people for being weary about Paradox's past (they've done some pretty shady stuff) and what Paradox might do again.

It’s not like Paradox or any company is putting a gun to their customers and demanding that they purchase a game.

People should be able to make up their own minds and if they choose to purchase a game ok and if they don’t want to invest in a game they will certainly have paid DLC then that is also ok.

Saying that paradox or any other video game company preys on their customers is hyperbole. Banks can prey on customers, utilities can prey on customers. When a company’s product itself is a luxury purchased with disposable income, that is not preying.

If a customer can’t prioritize their spending or control their spending that is not the developers fault. When did people stop being accountable for their own actions and start blaming everyone/everything else?

[dannyvader007]

Publicado originalmente por Emperor2000:

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

Paradox should be doing everything they can to avoid the fate of CK2, where the total content exceeds HUNDREDS of dollars. They might be the number ONE influence for video game piracy.

It's so ridiculous, Sseth went on basically a several minute rant/bit just about THAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4txj_8tqA

I am willing to bet that 99% of a DLC's sales occur within the first year of it's release. Anyone who plays the game and WANTS it HAS it by then, wouldn't you think? Sales occur during that time as well.

So the amount of money loss from fully integrating the DLC in as part of the game after one year is up is completely negligible.

Imagine how it would go for a second. Three years from now, the price to get ALL content will remain reasonable while Paradox will still have all of their expected revenue.

You could argue well just wait an extra year for it to be free. Sure, but people are already just DONE with DLC entirely. How many reviews have you seen where people who LIKE CK3 refuse to buy them out of sheer disgust for the price vs content.

This is going to help both the game devs themselves AND modders. Imagine for a second how HARD it is to balance and code for a game that could have 10 or more different DLCs, some of which MASSIVELY shift how the game plays.

The fact is you cant. Making the DLC a fully integrated part of the game helps make the balancing direction of the game more clear, AND will help clear up bugs that result from an odd mismatch of DLC by having one singular build to edit.

You know that there is a better game on the market called Knights of Honor 2: Sovereign, this game has already more features, then CK3 will ever have, because in KoH2, it is possible to grow your Kingdom without War, by using Spies and/or Cultural Influence.

And Armies are never going over 100.000 Troops, the most armies are around 4.000 - 6.000 Troops in KoH2.

I still don't have knights of Honor. But I am thinking about getting it within a month. Hopefully, it does have better features and better mechanics.

[Ashling]

Publicado originalmente por Kimlin:

Saying that paradox or any other video game company preys on their customers is hyperbole. Banks can prey on customers, utilities can prey on customers. When a company’s product itself is a luxury purchased with disposable income, that is not preying.

Snake-oil is hardly a needed product, you don't get a pass to do underhanded stuff just because people aren't going into bankruptcy because of it. If you can't even think of one good example then I encourage you to look at any modern country's customer protection laws. But hey, maybe you think you know better or are more tolerant of bull, fair enough.

But, word of warning, if you let companies erode what you think is acceptable, they'll just keep eroding that bar. You need to eventually call out predatory sales practices when you see them. Sure, your bar for that kinda stuff may be high, good for you, but I know people who have addictive personalities and I don't really consider companies targeting them to be a method of sale we should encourage either passively or actively. When you accept and encourage companies to pull bull, then you're allowing them to pull bull on everyone even on those who are most vulnerable.

[Razorblade]

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

Paradox should be doing everything they can to avoid the fate of CK2, where the total content exceeds HUNDREDS of dollars. They might be the number ONE influence for video game piracy.

The entire collection frequently went on sale for like $40. "I can't wait a few months for a sale" is a pathetic excuse for piracy.

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

I am willing to bet that 99% of a DLC's sales occur within the first year of it's release. Anyone who plays the game and WANTS it HAS it by then, wouldn't you think? Sales occur during that time as well.

So the amount of money loss from fully integrating the DLC in as part of the game after one year is up is completely negligible.

Imagine how it would go for a second. Three years from now, the price to get ALL content will remain reasonable while Paradox will still have all of their expected revenue.

Not even sure how to respond to this one... Those numbers are completely made up. Are you saying the majority of CK2 players didn't play with Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, and The Republic, or are you saying 99% of CK2's playerbase started playing in the first year? There's no reality where these statements make any sense.

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

You could argue well just wait an extra year for it to be free. Sure, but people are already just DONE with DLC entirely. How many reviews have you seen where people who LIKE CK3 refuse to buy them out of sheer disgust for the price vs content.

None; a Steam review literally requires you to own a DLC to review it. All of those people who say "This is the last time, I swear" never actually stop buying the DLC. Maybe they'll join the "I'll wait for a sale" camp on a good day, but they certainly aren't voting with their wallets in any meaningful numbers to effect change.

Publicado originalmente por dominicawb:

This is going to help both the game devs themselves AND modders. Imagine for a second how HARD it is to balance and code for a game that could have 10 or more different DLCs, some of which MASSIVELY shift how the game plays.

The fact is you cant. Making the DLC a fully integrated part of the game helps make the balancing direction of the game more clear, AND will help clear up bugs that result from an odd mismatch of DLC by having one singular build to edit.

Finally, a logical statement. Unfortunately, Paradox already solved that problem. Those free updates that drop with every paid DLC are exactly the solution to that problem. All buying a DLC does in a Paradox game is unlock content that already exists in the game; you already have all of that content forcibly downloaded by the free patch, you just need proof of ownership for it to actually appear in your game. That's why when you host a multiplayer game, every other player doesn't need to download all of the DLC you have; there is only one build of CK3, some people just have more or less permission to see content than others, based on the DLC they've bought.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

The DLCs are ARE fully integrated into the base game. Ever since the fourth generation, they integrated everything mechanical into the patch itself that accompanies the dlc so that the code base remains the same, all the dlc is, is the cosmetics, Host-side files (i.e. files only the host needs to work properly), and the unlocks to authorize it to use the dlc parts of the code.

This was in response to the horrible situation the 3rd gen had to deal with due to needing to install dlcs in a specific order to not bug anything out (and because they were built on top of each other, you HAD buy all of them if you wanted the features of one released later). And you couldn't play with anyone unless they had the same dlcs as you.

4th gen+ put a stop to that. It doesn't matter what dlcs you buy or in what order, the underlying code-base is the same. Since the idea was to release more modular focused dlcs that people could pick and choose at their leisure what they wanted, instead of getting an all or nothing grab-bag of random features like the 3rd generation expansions were.

Likewise you can play with other people even if you don't have the dlcs they do, since the important parts of the code are integrated already.

[R.T.]

These ppl spreading the KoH heresy faith is really annoying. It's just like the salesman or missionary break into your house or office. Hoping these ppl aren't paid by someone. And if you really want to sreading your faith, you can send a game copy or cdkey as the gift.

[Black_Rat]

How dare people want to get paid for their work!

[[FuFo] Mortucus]

all they need to do and hear me out here because i'm middle aged and might sound outrages to the young folk these days but how about they make expansions that are actual expansions like game sellers used to and with ♥♥♥♥ in them that makes the game better not just Different.

we used to pay 60$ for expacs because they where worth it and added value to already well made games.

what they do know is release a game bear bones and spend years putting in content that should be there day 1 selling it to you at 10 to 40$ price tags.