taking vassals with low obligations worth it?

[Rivazar]

i am pretty sure this can have later huge effect on my game, but right now i can in Ireland right from start 1066 get vassal under low obligations (low taxed, low levy).
I have high suspicion that it is not worth it in comare to longer dancing aroung forging claims with bishop or marriages.
Am i right?

[Das Boot]

It actually is worth it, because you can always raise those obligations after the fact.

[Ashling]

You are right in thinking that your main dejure vassals should have the highest tax/levy laws. However, changing a vassal's contract isn't the hardest thing in the world and waging war is expensive/you could wage war on other people.

Honestly, you'd probably make up for the war losses (losses in profit, not lives) just from ransoming and sieges, so it's really more about the opportunity cost than anything else. Could you be killing someone more important? If yes, then vassal, if no then eh.

Oh, unless your army is 10 ducats or more in maintenance then it'll take like 9 or more years for a province to make profit (assuming .5 at normal obligation)

[Rivazar]

Originally posted by Triangle:

You are right in thinking that your main dejure vassals should have the highest tax/levy laws. However, changing a vassal's contract isn't the hardest thing in the world and waging war is expensive/you could wage war on other people.

Honestly, you'd probably make up for the war losses (losses in profit, not lives) just from ransoming and sieges, so it's really more about the opportunity cost than anything else. Could you be killing someone more important? If yes, then vassal, if no then eh.

Oh, unless your army is 10 ducats or more in maintenance then it'll take like 9 or more years for a province to make profit (assuming .5 at normal obligation)

And what about that “Tyranny” modifier? Won’t I lose opinion of just everyone not only that vassal if I change contract?

[Novia]

Tyranny is a minor issue if done carefully, can be useful even to provoke vassals into poor decisions. Usually you can prevent such a cost however if you change it via a hook, or grant them more equitable terms, like lowering their tax requirement in exchange for more levies in the same negotiation.

There is a chance also that your Chancellor, if assigned to internal affairs, may come across a means to increase obligations of your vassal, usually in tax via random event (this happens regardless of previous negotiations). So yes, most times it is worth grabbing new vassals without war, should they revolt later or you get a claim on their territory, they can always be displaced with the appropriate crown authority or reason (treason).

Bear in mind that vassals will naturally contribute less tax and levies if not all de jure conditions are met and your rank and theirs aren't within one step of each other, each step further from your rank adds a diminishing effect on how much they add, emphasising the need for delegation.

The overall benefit is that land is still legally under your protection and thus property that no other major player can grab at directly, so think of low obligation vassals as long term investments, not for themselves but the territory they hold.

[Azunai]

I usually agree to take a vassal with low obligations. Vassal taxes and levies are pretty low anyway.

If you have a good spymaster you'll probably get hooks on people to chsnge their contract. Or you find reasons to revoke them legally and hand the lands to someone else.

[CrUsHeR]

Problem with the messed up contracts, you can only change the obligations in one step at a time. And only once per generation.

Only thing which helps is a "hard reset" by revoking all their titles.
If you get a strong vassal who probably hates you anyways, and everyone else is happy, forge a claim on his capital. Send a title revocation demand, likely he refuses so you get another revocation reason from the rebellion. If he accepts the revocation, just do it again.


Or simply don't accept vassals from other realms, instead forge claims strategically. Take the >50% of ounties one by one, usurp the duchy, then press de jure claims and give the duchy to a decent candidate.

Once you get the techs for faster claim forging, and to press all claims in one war it becomes a quick affair anyways.


Or play Clan (muslim) so you don't have to deal with all that.

[Mo0on]

No, because I will conquer their land anyways and give it to a member of my dynasty that is not in line to inherit anything.

[High Lord Denix]

It doesn't make a huge difference in the end and can be changed pretty easily so it just a matter of taste really, the way I look at it low obligations still pay tax and levy and if you get it without having to raise an army its 100% profit from the very start, its never a bad thing to do imo.

At the end of the day you're still going to take most of your land by conquests and that land is still going to have normal obligations, what difference does it make if like 5 of your 40 vassals have low obligations.

[danceswithhorses]

If the vassal has say +20 opinion of you, and will only accept low obligations, you can give them cash to improve that opinion, and that will affect the level of obligations that they are asking for.