Which is the better crusaders to start with 2 or 3?

[Grima The Fell Dragon]

I got this game in my yearly Humble Bundle choice and I'm wondering if it's worth redeeming or giving to a friend? I see a lot of negatives relating to the extremely greedy Paradox DLC, and I'm not sure if this is worth it by itself or better to get CK2 on sale and nickel and dime that dlc.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[t4chy]

3 has been improved over 2 by a lot, when it comes to accessability.

[Karinasha]

2

3 is a broken random numbers generator. In 2 when you want to assasinate and have ebought skill you will assasinate in 3 you have 95% succes chance and in 100% ocasions you will fail. And AI here is stupid AF

[undertaker-bhv]

3 is overall the better game for beginners because the UI is far better and the game explanes much better what you have to do in certain situations.
CK2 especially with all its DLCs can easily be overwelming, a feeling I never had with CK3.

[KharnTheKhan]

Originally posted by Karinasha:

2

3 is a broken random numbers generator. In 2 when you want to assasinate and have ebought skill you will assasinate in 3 you have 95% succes chance and in 100% ocasions you will fail. And AI here is stupid AF

you clearly havent played 2, In 2 you can have more than 100% plot power and still fail and have to wait multiple years to even get an event to assassinate said person

[Karinasha]

Originally posted by Khârn:

Originally posted by Karinasha:

2

3 is a broken random numbers generator. In 2 when you want to assasinate and have ebought skill you will assasinate in 3 you have 95% succes chance and in 100% ocasions you will fail. And AI here is stupid AF

you clearly havent played 2, In 2 you can have more than 100% plot power and still fail and have to wait multiple years to even get an event to assassinate said person

In 3 99 out of 100 plot of abduction or assasination are failing. Scheme lifestyle are crap and broken. And in general this game is a generator of random numbers.

Today I tried to play as a vassal of Normandy Lord. I have Scheme skill of 24 and Stewardship of 10 and he appoints me as his chancellor not a spymaster!

Game is crap and broken

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Karinasha:

In 3 99 out of 100 plot of abduction or assasination are failing. Scheme lifestyle are crap and broken. And in general this game is a generator of random numbers.

What are your stats lol? I almost never fail a murder on 95% success and I truly have about an 85% success rate on maxed out success chance.

Originally posted by Karinasha:

Today I tried to play as a vassal of Normandy Lord. I have Scheme skill of 24 and Stewardship of 10 and he appoints me as his chancellor not a spymaster!

Game is crap and broken

If its crap why are you playing? And yeah, AI isnt good, thats why the new update that drops in 2 days is going to fix that. Considering Paradox's massive success at fixing the atrocious Stellaris AI, I am quite interested to see how they do with CK3.

[the_panther]

I played over 3000 hours on Crusaders Kings 2, starting way back in February 2014.

CK2 had a very messy ending. Too many half-tested DLCs jacked up the price a lot. many of those DLCs resulted in numerous bugs which will never be fixed. Furthermore, there is tons of exploits still hanging out there. Many of the CK2 achievements were kind of weird in that you could not get lots of them with normal game play. Thus, I only reached 64% of CK2 achievements. But the worst thing with CK2 is that the late game lags a TON. They were working on that but gave up and decided a total rewrite by going to CK3 was necessary. I eventually quit CK2 and just waited on CK3.

I have now played over 1500 hours on Crusaders Kings 3.

CK3 is a lot harder to conquer the world. That makes a better game for me, as you have to go slower and be much more careful. I am pretty much an achievement junkie, having just completed 100% of CK3 achievements a few days ago. And those achievements were all very fair with just one exception. The 'Saga in Stone' achievement was badly mis-programmed. It was the ONLY one I had to cheese with a horribly warped departure from any resemblance of role playing.

Furthermore, there are far fewer DLCs in CK3 which greatly lowers the starting full game cost. There are also very few bugs, which is amazing in such a complex game. Lots of those CK2 DLCs are now included in the base CK3 game.

Don't pay much attention to the whining from Karinasha above, as people always complain about the RNG. I will say that in my 1500 CK3 hours, I strongly believe that the RNG percentages are VERY accurate. You can lose on a 95% chance, but I will always be happy with that once in twenty fail. Plus, I have never failed on a 100% chance. I did always feel that there seemed to be much more issues with the RNG in CK2.

They have also greatly improved the battle chances tool tip. In CK2, it was sometimes way off base. In CK3, you can definitely use the battle tool tip information to make better informed decisions. Should I attack that army sitting on a mountaintop?

It is very clear cut to me. Crusader Kings 3 is by far the better option as an entry point. Especially because you can be totally certain that Paradox will support the game for many years to come. CK2 will never be updated.

I have even deleted CK2 from my hard drive to open up some space. This was despite spending hundreds of dollars on the base game plus all the DLCs I bought.

[CupCupBaconBox]

I have all the CK games and all DLCs but I have not played any of them so I can't answer this.

[jerrypocalypse]

I started with 3 earlier this year and absolutely love it.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by Karinasha:

Originally posted by Khârn:

you clearly havent played 2, In 2 you can have more than 100% plot power and still fail and have to wait multiple years to even get an event to assassinate said person

In 3 99 out of 100 plot of abduction or assasination are failing. Scheme lifestyle are crap and broken. And in general this game is a generator of random numbers.

Today I tried to play as a vassal of Normandy Lord. I have Scheme skill of 24 and Stewardship of 10 and he appoints me as his chancellor not a spymaster!

Game is crap and broken

To be honest, I would this do too, so it does make sense that the AI don't appoint a random vassal with 24 intrigue as spymaster, the spymaster office should best be given to a parent of you(or someone you have a strong hook, because strong hooks blocks murder schemes) and not a random vassal, who can plot to kill you.

[Karinasha]

Originally posted by Yhvh10:

Originally posted by Karinasha:

In 3 99 out of 100 plot of abduction or assasination are failing. Scheme lifestyle are crap and broken. And in general this game is a generator of random numbers.

What are your stats lol? I almost never fail a murder on 95% success and I truly have about an 85% success rate on maxed out success chance.

Originally posted by Karinasha:

Today I tried to play as a vassal of Normandy Lord. I have Scheme skill of 24 and Stewardship of 10 and he appoints me as his chancellor not a spymaster!

Game is crap and broken

If its crap why are you playing? And yeah, AI isnt good, thats why the new update that drops in 2 days is going to fix that. Considering Paradox's massive success at fixing the atrocious Stellaris AI, I am quite interested to see how they do with CK3.

YouI will proboably laugh - all my played hours I was starting game anew guz eveytime AI killed all my prohress with its unpredictable stupidity.

Regarding what u said about AI fix - I didnt see anything about it in DLC description. All I saw is a Santa Barbara DLC coming up. With family feuds, vendettas and other BS

[The Former]

Once you've played 3, 2 will be hard to go back to. Make of that what you will.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Karinasha:

YouI will proboably laugh - all my played hours I was starting game anew guz eveytime AI killed all my prohress with its unpredictable stupidity.

If the AI has that level of power over you where it can do something stupid and you die... then you just need to get better. Lol. The AI should never be killing your characters off willy nilly. I restart all the time because I get bored after accomplishing my goal.

Originally posted by Karinasha:

Regarding what u said about AI fix - I didnt see anything about it in DLC description. All I saw is a Santa Barbara DLC coming up. With family feuds, vendettas and other BS

So you basically missed the entire dev diary on the free patch? Gotcha.

[Karinasha]

Originally posted by Yhvh10:

Originally posted by Karinasha:

YouI will proboably laugh - all my played hours I was starting game anew guz eveytime AI killed all my prohress with its unpredictable stupidity.

If the AI has that level of power over you where it can do something stupid and you die... then you just need to get better. Lol. The AI should never be killing your characters off willy nilly. I restart all the time because I get bored after accomplishing my goal.

Originally posted by Karinasha:

Regarding what u said about AI fix - I didnt see anything about it in DLC description. All I saw is a Santa Barbara DLC coming up. With family feuds, vendettas and other BS

So you basically missed the entire dev diary on the free patch? Gotcha.

AI army running in circles, attacking me headon with 0 chance to win while im sieging his capital and thus getting winscore (By no logical reason at all!) and im losing war. COOL AI!

I read their Diary second time right now as well as a DLC store page - Notrhing about AI fix. Stupid stories about stupid friends and stupid enemies.

[Justeer]

Originally posted by Karinasha:

Originally posted by Yhvh10:

I read their Diary second time right now as well as a DLC store page - Notrhing about AI fix. Stupid stories about stupid friends and stupid enemies.

The AI patch is not part of the DLC. It is a free update to the base game that comes out tomorrow. It is in the dev diary #105 Bastion, one dev diary before the DLC.