Why are the Islamic kingdoms named after a family and not historical names?

[(Rúna)]

..and is there any way of having them named as commonly known?

Eg; current playrhough, I played a cadet house of Idris dynysty, called house Ali. Formed what should be Morocco, but it carries the name and flag of Ali (formally Idris). However, if I try to edit the flag, there is the option to "reset historical flag" of Morocco. Just not the name. I tried manually changing it to Morocco, and seemed not to work. It can become very confusing when trying to locate countries whilst making marriages and alliances. It's always [random house] emirate, and not, say, just "Egypt".

[spasti696969]

That's because of the family holding the title. West Francia also becomes France when a Karling loses the title.

[Jackochainsaw]

I kind of agree on this, it's quite annoying. It can override your renaming of the Kingdom/Empire. I wish there was some control on this element of the naming, as well as the naming schemes of familial names. There is probably a mod that addresses this, but if you play Iron Man a lot like I do, this is an annoyance.

[(Rúna)]

Originally posted by Jackochainsaw:

I kind of agree on this, it's quite annoying. It can override your renaming of the Kingdom/Empire. I wish there was some control on this element of the naming, as well as the naming schemes of familial names. There is probably a mod that addresses this, but if you play Iron Man a lot like I do, this is an annoyance.

yeah i play ironman as default too, as picking up any achievements along the way in a playthrough can be a way i set goals, and is a nice reward for me.

I remember at one point, before a patch, the game started calling all kingdoms by the family/house name, even if they were not Islamic. I think it was a bug, but this with the Islamic nations seems an intentional convention.

Originally posted by spasti696969:

That's because of the family holding the title. West Francia also becomes France when a Karling loses the title.

I dont think it is down to that, as the Islamic nations seems to constantly have this naming convention, even if different dynasties and houses take over. Though I might create a custom player in Marrakesh and start a new game and see if the country is called Morocco when I create / take over it. My gut is telling me it is down to the religion though, which is a shame, as its a great location for being Sufri

[spasti696969]

In my last game the Abbasid Caliphate changed to the Arabian Empire when the Abbasids lost the Imperial title and were reduced to Baghdad.

[(Rúna)]

Originally posted by spasti696969:

In my last game the Abbasid Caliphate changed to the Arabian Empire when the Abbasids lost the Imperial title and were reduced to Baghdad.

I've just started a playthrough as a custom character - a Sufri Berber woman of the house Disco, in Sijilmasa county (a little desert corridor with Sufri holy site). It's De Jure part of Idrisid (Morocco), which is De Jure part of unformed Maghreb Empire. So hopefully, I will see the names of kingdoms and eventually the empire change as I get them!

[LonelyCookie]

They are named after the dynasties because thats the historical precedence for most major islamic kingdoms and empires.

Rashidun Caliphate 632–661
Umayyad Caliphate 661–750
Abbasid Caliphate 750–1258
Fatimid Caliphate 909–1171
Ghaznavid Empire 10th c.
Ayyubid Sultanate 1171–1246
Great Seljuk Empire, Sultanate of Rûm 1040–1154
Timurid Empire 1250s–1526

One of the sorta exceptions is the Mamluks, which not named after a ruling dynasty but after the ruling caste/class.

[Dante_Deepdarkness]

Originally posted by LonelyCookie:

They are named after the dynasties because thats the historical precedence for most major islamic kingdoms and empires.

Rashidun Caliphate 632–661
Umayyad Caliphate 661–750
Abbasid Caliphate 750–1258
Fatimid Caliphate 909–1171
Ghaznavid Empire 10th c.
Ayyubid Sultanate 1171–1246
Great Seljuk Empire, Sultanate of Rûm 1040–1154
Timurid Empire 1250s–1526

One of the sorta exceptions is the Mamluks, which not named after a ruling dynasty but after the ruling caste/class.

And what about India? I started as a Buddhist ruler in... Puri (if I remember it well, it has been a few months since I ended the run), and when I formed the kingdom of Orissa the name it was shown was the one from my dynasty, the same happened after I formed the Bengal Empire, and when I united the whole India too (name that I'm not going to try to write without looking at it). It was kind of a meh to zoom out and see my dynasty name instead of the realm :/

[LonelyCookie]

Originally posted by Dante_Deepdarkness:

Originally posted by LonelyCookie:

They are named after the dynasties because thats the historical precedence for most major islamic kingdoms and empires.

Rashidun Caliphate 632–661
Umayyad Caliphate 661–750
Abbasid Caliphate 750–1258
Fatimid Caliphate 909–1171
Ghaznavid Empire 10th c.
Ayyubid Sultanate 1171–1246
Great Seljuk Empire, Sultanate of Rûm 1040–1154
Timurid Empire 1250s–1526

One of the sorta exceptions is the Mamluks, which not named after a ruling dynasty but after the ruling caste/class.

And what about India? I started as a Buddhist ruler in... Puri (if I remember it well, it has been a few months since I ended the run), and when I formed the kingdom of Orissa the name it was shown was the one from my dynasty, the same happened after I formed the Bengal Empire, and when I united the whole India too (name that I'm not going to try to write without looking at it). It was kind of a meh to zoom out and see my dynasty name instead of the realm :/

Similar, but not sure how Paradox designed it. I dont know India that well, but I can recall that Maurya, Lodhi, Ghazni and Gupta empires were named after dynasties too.

But theres also a lot of indian kingdoms that werent named after dynasties so...who know how Paradox did it :D

[Dante_Deepdarkness]

Originally posted by LonelyCookie:

Similar, but not sure how Paradox designed it. I dont know India that well, but I can recall that Maurya, Lodhi, Ghazni and Gupta empires were named after dynasties too.

But theres also a lot of indian kingdoms that werent named after dynasties so...who know how Paradox did it :D

Thanks for the info

[CrUsHeR]

IIRC:

1) Arabic, Indian and Islamic realms use the name of the ruling house (not dynasty) if the title is held by the house head (not sure if it also includes the islam condition now, in the past you could have e.g. Somali muslim realms using the formal realm title)

2) Because the house head is inherited, a realm may change back to its formal title temporarily after a claimant revolt, until the newly installed ruler forms a cadet branch
(this requires all ancestors to be dead)