Impatient/gluttonous/shy - all the time?

[Flybox]

It feels like my heir almost always gets this event. Even if my character has none of those traits. Are there other things that make this event more common?

[Half-lidded Bruiser]

Yes. Their guardian having any of those traits.

[CrUsHeR]

I did some analysis of this for a previous thread. Basically it works like this:


1) Events are always randomly selected, but weighted by the guardian's traits.
So a certain trait on the guardian may make related events 4x as likely, and the opposite trait events 0.5x as likely.

2) Existing traits on the child will block the same event, and all similar events which would unlock the same trait


What this means:

A) Despite the general understanding, traits on the guardian do NOT guarantee the same traits (or their events) on the ward.

B) An AI guardian will still select random choices every time, so never let your first 2 sons get educated by AIs.

C) For best chances during education, you would have to look through the scripts and understand which traits are blocking which events. IIRC if your child is already Generous, it cannot fire the event to become Temperate (or the other way round?) so you would have to pick the other option first, and hope you get the desired event as next choice.

D) Additionally, if you play a historical ruler or a custom ruler with either "your perfect 3 traits" or more than 3 traits, this is bad because as mentioned, some traits are good for your ruler but will trigger the wrong education events, or block others you wanted to see.

[Flybox]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

I did some analysis of this for a previous thread. Basically it works like this:


1) Events are always randomly selected, but weighted by the guardian's traits.
So a certain trait on the guardian may make related events 4x as likely, and the opposite trait events 0.5x as likely.

2) Existing traits on the child will block the same event, and all similar events which would unlock the same trait


What this means:

A) Despite the general understanding, traits on the guardian do NOT guarantee the same traits (or their events) on the ward.

B) An AI guardian will still select random choices every time, so never let your first 2 sons get educated by AIs.

C) For best chances during education, you would have to look through the scripts and understand which traits are blocking which events. IIRC if your child is already Generous, it cannot fire the event to become Temperate (or the other way round?) so you would have to pick the other option first, and hope you get the desired event as next choice.

D) Additionally, if you play a historical ruler or a custom ruler with either "your perfect 3 traits" or more than 3 traits, this is bad because as mentioned, some traits are good for your ruler but will trigger the wrong education events, or block others you wanted to see.

So push comes to shove, it's basically bad luck. I don't have any of the relevant traits, and I'm my kids' guardian, so this event is just popping up because of bad dice rolls.

[Kiethoo]

It's really annoying when I find myself having to pick one of these garbage traits for my heir when I or his Guardian has none of them and actuelly has quiet good skills/traits.

But sometimes you just gotta suck it up and play though it.
Shy isn't too bad, Glutton also doesn't have too many downsides to it. Nor does Impatient.

What does kind suck is that for most of us CK2 players we are used to being able to have a bad flaw and replace it with good ones through events and things and what not.

Where as in CK3 is EXTREMELY Limited or Rare to have a Trait Replaced.

I think ONCE i was able to get Craven-> Brave
and one time I was able to change Zealous to Cynical....
but thats about it.

I guess there are some rare religion tenets that offer a chance to change bad traits to good.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Kiethoo:

Glutton also doesn't have too many downsides to it. Nor does Impatient.

Gluttonous makes your character obese, reduces attraction and stewardship, has practically no advantages. Worst problem is that it is a sin the majority of relevant faiths on the map. Avoid at all costs.

Shy has been nerfed / buffed, but still avoid if you plan on acting diplomatically.

Impatient is generally the least problematic.

[Flybox]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by Kiethoo:

Glutton also doesn't have too many downsides to it. Nor does Impatient.

Gluttonous makes your character obese, reduces attraction and stewardship, has practically no advantages. Worst problem is that it is a sin the majority of relevant faiths on the map. Avoid at all costs.

Shy has been nerfed / buffed, but still avoid if you plan on acting diplomatically.

Impatient is generally the least problematic.

I always go with impatient out of the three, without even thinking. Seems the least bad of three bad options.

Random update: I had another son, and this event triggered again. Then after choosing impatient, three years later another event trigger that basically forced me to choose gluttonous. So now I'm the head of a dynasty with good traits (the Santiago guy) with a bunch of crappy sons.

[CrUsHeR]

Try Shy next time?

[Flybox]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Try Shy next time?

I think if I had to play a shy character for his entire life, I'd rage quit every time.

[The_Osiris]

I think the guardian's learning skill also affects things as well.

[Sapient_Pest]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

if your child is already Generous, it cannot fire the event to become Temperate (or the other way round?) so you would have to pick the other option first, and hope you get the desired event as next choice.

I must not understand what you mean correctly, because the way I interpret this would mean that my ward could not get paranoid, sadistic, and ambitious - but I have 100% had children get that same event three times in a row. As in, I had it happen 3 days ago, with Haesteinn's kid.

[Half-lidded Bruiser]

Originally posted by Sapient_Pest:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

if your child is already Generous, it cannot fire the event to become Temperate (or the other way round?) so you would have to pick the other option first, and hope you get the desired event as next choice.

I must not understand what you mean correctly, because the way I interpret this would mean that my ward could not get paranoid, sadistic, and ambitious - but I have 100% had children get that same event three times in a row. As in, I had it happen 3 days ago, with Haesteinn's kid.

You are correct. Specifically, the game runs a NAND check for the paired relevant traits.
Example:

NAND = {
OR = {
has_trait = craven
has_trait = brave
}
OR = {
has_trait = lazy
has_trait = diligent
}
OR = {
has_trait = arbitrary
has_trait = just
}
}

NAND means it's checking for "not and". If all three of the or checks pass- you have a kid slated to get a 4th personality event, but he's a lazy, arbitrary craven- then this event won't fire.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Sapient_Pest:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

if your child is already Generous, it cannot fire the event to become Temperate (or the other way round?) so you would have to pick the other option first, and hope you get the desired event as next choice.

I must not understand what you mean correctly, because the way I interpret this would mean that my ward could not get paranoid, sadistic, and ambitious - but I have 100% had children get that same event three times in a row. As in, I had it happen 3 days ago, with Haesteinn's kid.

Hmm yeah i just read the event script again, and it actually says "NAND" for the trait restrictions on the ward. I thought it was "NOR".

So i believe it means that the event still can play unless the child already has a full combination of all 3 options (or their opposites) ?
But then the child couldn't get more events anyways because it already has three traits.

Problem may be that the event is 3x as likely if your ruler is Ambitious, and there are no traits to reduce the likeliness. This is definitely the culprit, i noticed the same with ambitious rulers.

[Flybox]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by Sapient_Pest:

I must not understand what you mean correctly, because the way I interpret this would mean that my ward could not get paranoid, sadistic, and ambitious - but I have 100% had children get that same event three times in a row. As in, I had it happen 3 days ago, with Haesteinn's kid.

Hmm yeah i just read the event script again, and it actually says "NAND" for the trait restrictions on the ward. I thought it was "NOR".

So i believe it means that the event still can play unless the child already has a full combination of all 3 options (or their opposites) ?
But then the child couldn't get more events anyways because it already has three traits.

Problem may be that the event is 3x as likely if your ruler is Ambitious, and there are no traits to reduce the likeliness. This is definitely the culprit, i noticed the same with ambitious rulers.

I'm pretty sure that would explain it. I think the guy I was playing was ambitious, and I also like to pick ambitious with my created characters, so that would explain why I feel like I see this event too much.

[CrUsHeR]

Perhaps it is intended, so the ambitious parents (helicopter mom, britney spears dad) always end up with terrible children.

What partially worked for me was to pick Paranoid first, afterwards i could pick something like Humble and Temperate. Then in the next generation you may be more lucky.


Ambitious is absolutely NOT a good trait in CK3, besides the extra stress for your ruler it also turns your heirs into potential murderers.

[Narrowmind]

Agree. But what about gregarious? Are opinions for this one good or bad?