Tribal to Feudal is 100% broken

[Vintage_Green]

I have done 4 runs now tribal to feudal each time I'm an empire I'm in rome ive got rid of the pope and still even with on this run having 10k to invest into land and temples trade posts etc.. it didn't matter I go to holy war raise army and in a matter of minutes im -800 gold.

I am convinced as someone who played CK2 for over 800 hours that CK3 tribal to Feudal is just broken.

Paradox please fix this.

[Narrowmind]

Then simply don't go to war until your finances are in order. You also don't need ALL your army for small wars. Consider that dismiss what you don't need.

There's no reason to fix what is not broken.

[Vintage_Green]

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

Then simply don't go to war until your finances are in order. You also don't need ALL your army for small wars. Consider that dismiss what you don't need.

There's no reason to fix what is not broken.

They never are that is the problem and you can't always choose when you go to war even tho I had allies winning wars for me I was doing nothing even after 10k invested in buildings it still wasn't enough its impossible

[Vintage_Green]

CK2 your tribal holdings didn't just vanish like they do here, they converted as they should.

[teron]

Were you trying to hold that empire together with your original tribal domains that lacked buildings?
Did you have 100 control in your domain? Or did you move your capital to an establish high development feudal county but have not asserted control in the county.
Had you spend time getting development up, since that helps with income and also gives the chance to spawns cities/temples and initial castle buildings?

As Ratlegion stated, get finances in order post tribal --> Feudal. Since one major income hit is your Man at Arms is going from costing prestige to gold.

Also one thing to keep in mind with the switch, you are potentially taking a hit from the tax that your vassals are providing. Since tribal is based on level of Fame, which at max (Living Legend) is 40% (and 70% of their levies), where as base feudal is 10% modified by the contract plus other perks/crown authority.

The way to think of it is that your are doing a major structural change to your empire, and it takes a bit to get things in order. It is why any time I have done tribal to feudal there is a power consolidation/domain building period.

[dwarfpcfan]

Having done more then one tribal to feudal run complete from 867 start to end date with various tribal duchies.

I can attest there is nothing broken with switching from tribal to feudal. The "problem" (with it not being a real problem, just a challenge) is that tribal and feudal have different management "economies"

In a feudal realm, everything runs on gold and nothing else. In tribal it runs on a minimum of gold and mostly prestige/fame and the more prestige you have, the bigger taxes and levies you get.

This means that you have to lay the groundwork before you even consider going feudal. Just taking a feudal county/realm and jumping from tribal to feudal willy nilly is going to kill your economy.

If you want to feudalize. You have to do it through "adopt feudal ways" decision and don't even consider pressing that button until you are ready. Even if you meed the requirements, don't do it unless you are absolutely ready. You can afford to stay tribal for 1-3 rulers to get your affairs in order.

1- build markets and gathering halls and upgrade them to the max in all of your counties AND make sure you have hold your limit in counties, ideally you should do this after you've invested in stewardship to have a holding limit of at least 7-9 and have each of these counties have 1 market and 1 gathering hall (upgrade both)

2-upgrade your tribal fort level to 2 in each of those counties.

3-Send your steward out to increase devellopment in all your counties. even at tribal level you can raise your can dev to 20 without your steward incurring penalties to the task

4-Make sure you are culture head and research EVERY tribal tech, all of it. You'll need those.

AND yes this means your tribal king running around raiding and pillaging tribal holds burning down churches , howling and screaming should focus on STEWARDSHIP AND LEARNING. These 2 focuses are absolutely necessary to speed devellopment of your realm and reach the point where you are ready to feudalize. as fast as possible.

Warfare, intrigue, diplomacy you can have fun with those trees once you've put the work in to drag your tribal realm kicking and screaming into a state where it can survive feudalism

5-Devellop every county you own to at least 20

6-Then when you get the chance switch to a reformed faith, either by conversion to an organized religion or reforming a pagan faith.

Once you meet all the requirements above, you're still not ready for feudalism.

6- Then you need to make sure you've maxed out your men at arms. Levies are where you crash your kingdom treasury in wars. They cost an arm and a leg and they are near worthless in wars unless you have like 100 to 1 overwhelming numbers against poor quality men at arms

7-Save money, at the very least 1-5k for a decent sized kingdom level realm

Once you meet all the above, now you are ready for feudalism. You should see the "adopt feudal ways" decision available. Do it.

As soon as you switch feudal, your income will drop like from something like 30 gold month to 2-5 gold month.

But that's ok, you have that 5K saved up from raiding and pillaging.

Now the real game begins. Remember when I said to only build 1 market and 1 gathering hall? That's because specifically when using adopt feudal ways, those buildings will switch to feudal buildings of equal level. The thing is you don't get to choose what those buildings will be.

So you purposely left yourself empty building slots. and you have 5K to spend.

build farms in every county, build hunting lodges, build pastures each of these generate income

Go through each of your vassals 1 by one and switch their vassal contracts to high taxes/low levies

make it rain, by doing this with 7 counties 1 farm+1 pasture+1 hunting lodge level 1 is

0.8+0.2+03 seven times per settlement in your counties. That still if all those 7 counties are pitiful 2 settlement counties that's still 18 gold month before bonuses from devellopment and minus any monthly costs for men at arms and court costs

on top of your vassal taxes

Provided you took the time to devellop each of your counties it should be more then that. You'll be making more.

The next 2-4 rulers once you switch to feudal are going to focus entirely on catching up your economy. Again by focusing on stewardship and learning to devellop and tech up, earn cash and build economy buildings

Provided you had your rulers be high learning and were culture head, You should tech very fast, and slowly but surely you'll see the snowball effect as you build economy buildings, increase development and upgrade economy buildings

by 1000-1100 ish you should be back ready to start going on the offensive again. And with increase tech for better succession laws, increased domain limit and being able to invest in your culture to add the right traditions to again... increase income.

provided you play sharp by 1200 ish you should have an empire title and be averaging 75-100 gold per month at least. and then nothing should really be able to stop your expansion if you play smart.

[Azoniar]

The fact that going feudal makes you weaker is all the evidence you need to realize thats a broken mechanic, this was already an issue for me in ck2.

[Namhoh]

ive done tribal to feudal many time and have never had an issue pass about 5 years after going feudal, and thats only if i mess up before hand. just something you are going to have to learn to deal, never really got into ck2 but in ck3 if you dont steam roll everything 10 years after starting then your are roleplaying or just not doing things right

[teron]

Originally posted by Azoniar:

The fact that going feudal makes you weaker is all the evidence you need to realize thats a broken mechanic, this was already an issue for me in ck2.

It makes you weaker short term, stronger long term due to feudal/clan having access to better succession laws, larger Man at Arms pools, better buildings as they gain later era innovations.

Also the fact that your income/levies post succession are more stable (especially with feudal) due to not being linked the to rulers level of fame.

[Narrowmind]

Feudal is by far stronger than tribal.

[Poompaxhotl-Mardxvar]

Staying tribal works for a while, but the current meta is to get yourself a small to medium domain in the favourable terrain while holding duchy capitals, spend a generation heavily investing in them with good techs and you'd be golden: enough money to support a huge army with men-at-arms raised and to still get a profit, enough money to hire big stacks of mercenaries, enough money to have several buildings buffing a specific troop type making spacemarines. Not to mention, it's a bit more fun to develop the land rather than just conquer more and more.

Additionally, ck2 also had a period of weakness when switching to feudal: it cut in your levies in half, making it impossible to fight or defend. It was somewhat balanced by making your army composition rely more on heavy infantry rather than light infantry, but the difference was pretty small and AI could simply spam 5k stacks hired for 500 prestige and 2.5k stacks hired for 250 piety, neglecting any tactical advantage you had.

[Vintage_Green]

I don't care anymore fanboys ruin gaming you idiots are not devs I am let me talk to the devs you can all ♥♥♥♥ off

[Narrowmind]

You need to calm down. They're listening to you. They just don't think any of your ideas are worth entertaining, or even worth a response yet. You make it seem like no one else has issues with it. No one said it wasn't challenging - they just said it wasn't 100 percent broken.

[JC]

Originally posted by Azoniar:

The fact that going feudal makes you weaker is all the evidence you need to realize thats a broken mechanic, this was already an issue for me in ck2.

No to go feudal you need lots of gold.. You are only weaker because you did it with no money. If you go feudal with 10-25k gold depending on the size of your lands you will have no issue. You need to upgrade all your lands when you make the swap.

[Fizzypop]

If you are tribal then to raise your army you don't need gold at least not nearly as much. You need prestige. You need a lot of it. To play tribal is easy, you just have to constantly war, and if you do you will always have enough prestige. Your problem is you mix governments by taking over Rome. Develop tribal lands and actually work with the mechanic instead of trying to game it. Feudal is easy too. It's just the management is different. It's gold based. Have you taken any traits to reduce your maintenance on your army? A large standing one requires you to do so. Also take the first half of the steward tree where your dread decreases your maintenance and take the at war gold monthly as well as the stress one. Then play your character with high stress.

As someone else said the switch is only hard because the different resources you need. Make sure before you make the switch you are saving gold and planning your character appropriately.