unreformed penalty after varangian adventure

[dbix11]

This feels bad man. I conquer a duchy and now my court has an automatic -20 opinion modifier of me due to having an unreformed religion. Im sure down the line wed convert culture and religion but right from the get-go doesn't feel right.

Maybe i wanna keep the old way and raid my neighbors and worship odin, wtf?

[Narrowmind]

You can reform into asatru.

[dbix11]

Don't i need those 3 holy sites? Right now im in Sardinia so it feels kinda silly RP wise to go back to the homeland just to reform. I swear i'm not trolling, just ignorant. Religion is the least interesting thing to me in this game.

[Theandal]

I don't understand what you are getting at?
Of course sardinians don't like you being a Norse pagan invader. Or are other norse/asatru people not liking you?

[Narrowmind]

I'm wondering if he has feudal vassals and they don't like that he hasn't reformed.

[dbix11]

after searching other forums i found out its actually kind of a big problem that devs haven't addressed yet unfortunately. Thought I was going crazy

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/i-used-the-varangian-adventure-cb-to-migrate-to-a-feudal-duchy-what-now.1463717/

[Mati_Lublin]

What problem? You follow de facto folk religion which doesn't support organized feudal structure, plain and simple.

[dbix11]

yes i know what youre saying but consider the scenario. You embark across the world with your everyone in your life, vassals, councel, courtiers etc..

map out and plan to conquer a fertile area that is currently being ruled by an undeserving, inferior king.

Blood, sweat and victory

Sit down at your first council meeting and they're like "hey man you know all that epic ♥♥♥♥ we just did? ♥♥♥♥ you, you aren't reformed, we all got together and decided this and you should feel bad. We wont hate you if you and all of us convert to Catholicism religion but well be DAMNED if we stay Asatru a day longer!"

its out of place and weird.

[Mati_Lublin]

It's not. Your subject lords accomodated into feudal structure and realized their current beliefs don't support it. Deal with it.

Religion at this tima was source of law.

[dbix11]

well, i appreciate your perspective on the issue nonetheless.

[ShandoKhan]

Thats no an issue, or bug, that how all unreformed religions work. That modifier will also appear in scandinavia, if you get big enough. You just might didnt noticed it directly.

The game also discribes why this happens: unorganised faiths are, while generally speaking the "same" faith. (All pray to Odin, for the asatru for example), every region has their own way on how to worship.
Which could of course seen by the other region as strange and wrong, but at least its Odin they worship....

When reforming the faith, you start to unify and standartise how the gods should be worshipped. Which then prevents people disliking each other for doing it the "wrong" way.

[highfever]

I think was dbix11 is trying to say is that the majority of the ordinary people should hate you as a foreign and barbaric invader. But your court, the people you brought with you, and the better part of the nobility, which you also brought with you (slaughtered or expelled the old nobilty - happened in history time after time), should love you, because you conquered them land and riches.
So you, as a foreign conquerer, should have a BIG and LONG malus on control, taxes etc., but your own norse people should 'love' you. And in that, I think, he is right, from a RPG wise and historic perspective. Though I don't know how difficult it would be to implement this into the engine.

[avil]

As unreformed, you have a huge discount to reform to reformed religion, especially one present in the realm.
As a norse adventurer, you have cultural HUGE discount to change your culture.

For a reason. You're supposed to do that to take control over your subjects.

[dbix11]

Originally posted by avil:

As unreformed, you have a huge discount to reform to reformed religion, especially one present in the realm.
As a norse adventurer, you have cultural HUGE discount to change your culture.

For a reason. You're supposed to do that to take control over your subjects.

Id be all about it if i didnt have to make a grand voyage back to where i came from and conquer 3 holy sites as a condition for reformation.

Its silly af.

[ShandoKhan]

Its not silly, its the way how the developers showed the stability of christianity, etc. There are a reasons, why for example: the roman emporers switched one day to christianity: Having a uniform religion, where everywhere is worship the same, gives the empire a huge stability boost.
The same goes for Viking adventures: They explored and settled far, but after some time always switched to the local culture(or it became a hybrid one) and faith.
And even the mainland of scandinavia: Christianity was more succesful for peace and stability and had the "better options" after death

You dont need to stay Asatru, you can for example convert to the new unreformed religion of the canary island, conquer the canaries, cartago and cartagena and have enough holy sides to reform. Or try to reestablish the hellenic paganism and worship Zeus instead of Odin.

Its not that you are forced to stay Asatru, even more, as its normally a religion for a start boost: making the Northmen stronger in the early game, but they must either reform or switch to another religion to get into the next era for research and becoming Feudal. So the people who stay the unreformed way will loose more and more boni of their holy sides, because of these either being hold by, most likely, catholics or reformed pagans.

[dbix11]

"You dont need to stay Asatru, you can for example convert to the new unreformed religion of the canary island, conquer the canaries, cartago and cartagena and have enough holy sides to reform. Or try to reestablish the hellenic paganism and worship Zeus instead of Odin."

Alright I did not know this was an option, I will give it a go. Thank you