Holy orders and religion reform

[Ēarendel]

What are the requirements to create holy orders? I have leased lands to create one, but after religion reform I am unable to interact with them anymore or send anyone to join the said order.

[CrUsHeR]

Holy orders are permanently dedicated to one faith. They don't follow your faith creation / reformation just because you are their patron.

Requirements: https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Decisions#Found_Holy_Order

Note that you can found several holy orders with one ruler. The order headquarters needs to be outside of your capital kingdom, then you grant the governing kingdom to someone else. You should lose the patronage after a short time and can repeat that with other kingdoms.

[Ēarendel]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Holy orders are permanently dedicated to one faith. They don't follow your faith creation / reformation just because you are their patron.

Requirements: https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Decisions#Found_Holy_Order

Note that you can found several holy orders with one ruler. The order headquarters needs to be outside of your capital kingdom, then you grant the governing kingdom to someone else. You should lose the patronage after a short time and can repeat that with other kingdoms.

So how do I regain holy orders functionality, because I cant establish new ones? Revoke lease for old one and establish one under reformed faith?

Also the old order is inside my rulers capital county

[CrUsHeR]

Yes, you would have to revoke their lease where possible.

And i generally wouldn't place them in my capital, since they don't pay taxes and their holdings are dead weight for your economy.

[Ēarendel]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Yes, you would have to revoke their lease where possible.

And I generally wouldn't place them in my capital, since they don't pay taxes and their holdings are dead weight for your economy.

Ah, I figured that may be, though it happened through a court holding, they insta-built a city in my county without giving a choice where to place them

[Sid1701d]

That is different someone else already formed the holy order a vessel of your realm or vessel in another kingdom or the holy order order expands on its own. Holy Order expansion don't need to don't need to ask for permision to expand outside your realm, however if you are the realm leige, they will ask you. One holy order per faith and the vassel that creates it can use it free, everyone else in your religion whether reformed or not has to pay money to use them. Also if your playing as a vassel your liege can put one in your land without asking you.

[Ēarendel]

Originally posted by Sid1701d:

That is different someone else already formed the holy order a vessel of your realm or vessel in another kingdom or the holy order order expands on its own. Holy Order expansion don't need to don't need to ask for permision to expand outside your realm, however if you are the realm leige, they will ask you. One holy order per faith and the vassel that creates it can use it free, everyone else in your religion whether reformed or not has to pay money to use them. Also if your playing as a vassel your liege can put one in your land without asking you.

How come I can only select my one capital county city for finding the holy order?

[CrUsHeR]

You can only found holy orders in a castle barony or city in your domain. Temples are excluded.

Originally posted by Sid1701d:

Holy Order expansion don't need to don't need to ask for permision to expand outside your realm, however if you are the realm leige, they will ask you. One holy order per faith and the vassel that creates it can use it free, everyone else in your religion whether reformed or not has to pay money to use them. Also if your playing as a vassel your liege can put one in your land without asking you.

1. I think this is how it used to work, however in the current patch, the order does directly ask your vassals. So you don't have a say anymore about all cities in your realm being blocked by orders.
They still occasionally ask you about a vassal holding, but that seems extremely rare.

2. Holy orders cost piety to hire, not gold. That's why a poor count with 150 troops can hire 5000 order troops for a holy war over a duchy or kingdom, and also why the orders can be quite contraproductive. As soon as there are 1-2 orders, your fervor will keep dropping significantly from all those holy wars across the map.

[glythe]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Holy orders cost piety to hire, not gold. That's why a poor count with 150 troops can hire 5000 order troops for a holy war over a duchy or kingdom, and also why the orders can be quite contraproductive. As soon as there are 1-2 orders, your fervor will keep dropping significantly from all those holy wars across the map.

Yea after a while it is a good idea to revoke the ability of king sized vassals to start wars for this exact reason.