Kingdom ceased existing?..

[ilibman]

Hello! So I got into a following situation today: I played as tribe, formed a kingdom, and had a lot of sons (like 5 or so), then I conquered more land and noticed that I can form another kingdom, so I had an idea (probably a bad one, but anyway): I created the kingdom, picked one of the worst sons and granted him it, the idea was to get rid of him as a successor, cause else the kingdom was to be inherited by my second son, whom I planned to use a steward, cause he got high stewardship, and I wasn't interested in this son (the worst one) really. So I did it, but somehow it didn't play out as was anticipated: the majority of kingdom's lands stayed under control of my vassal and, thus, as a part of my realm, and what confused me even more, my son was the king of that kingdom for sometime, but then, seemingly without any notifications about it, became just a count (of a county that I gave him with the kingdom title, since, for some reason, that was a requirement) and the kingdom title disappeared... Like there was once again a possibility to pay money and create the title once again but... what gives?

[jerrypocalypse]

If you go to that kingdom title pager, you can check the history for it (on the right of the page). It sounds like the ruler held very little de jure land for that kingdom title, so what likely happened is that they destroyed it. The AI will do this sometimes when they hold below a certain amount of de jure land for kingdoms.

[sbudy]

I believe from your description you gave him a kingdom title without any land inside that kingdom (without counties). He was the king of nothing, really. Without any real power inside that kingdom, the title evaporated.

...It's a favorite tactic to pacify disgruntled vassals. Give them a title without any land in it. The title would vanish after some time and you can use it again, but the opinion bonus would stick.

When you hand out kingdom titles and you want them to stick, you need to confirm the recipient has lands inside that kingdom. Preferably also a duchy title and enough military power to hold into his new title against ambitious claimants.

[teron]

There is a rule setting about titles auto destroying if you do not hold land in the De Jure. Which can be off, effect everyone or everyone but the player.

If that is on, and you are for example the King of Ireland and have no land/vassals in Ireland after a while the title will automatically destroy.

They also did add a special version of this rule for empires, where an empire that has less then 20% of its De Jure's title will auto destroy.

Note that you can abuse this sometimes by taking land from AI realms so that their top title auto destroys, and shatters their realm into a bunch of independent vassals.
Extreme case would be an Emperor that had no kingdom or Duke titles. At the auto destruction of the Empire title, he is a count and all count+ vassals release.

[ilibman]

got it! thanks!

[CrUsHeR]

FYI, you can't get rid of heirs by granting them independence. They will still inherit land in your own realm.

Originally posted by sbudy:

...It's a favorite tactic to pacify disgruntled vassals. Give them a title without any land in it. The title would vanish after some time and you can use it again, but the opinion bonus would stick.

The opinion bonus is removed when the title disappears.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by jerrypocalypse:

If you go to that kingdom title pager, you can check the history for it (on the right of the page). It sounds like the ruler held very little de jure land for that kingdom title, so what likely happened is that they destroyed it. The AI will do this sometimes when they hold below a certain amount of de jure land for kingdoms.

This is wrong.
The AI never destroys an title.
It is an event when the game has the De-Jure Requirement Game Rule on.

[jerrypocalypse]

Originally posted by Emperor2000:

Originally posted by jerrypocalypse:

If you go to that kingdom title pager, you can check the history for it (on the right of the page). It sounds like the ruler held very little de jure land for that kingdom title, so what likely happened is that they destroyed it. The AI will do this sometimes when they hold below a certain amount of de jure land for kingdoms.

This is wrong.
The AI never destroys an title.
It is an event when the game has the De-Jure Requirement Game Rule on.

I do not have that rule on, and I have had several neighboring and foreign rulers destroy kingdom and empire titles

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

The opinion bonus is removed when the title disappears.

That's true, but it gives you time to improve your relations (like the decay of short reign or tyranny penalties) and you don't get a malus from revoking their title. The bonus for granting a title decays pretty quickly anyway.