Are court amenities too expensive?

[Venom Jesus]

I'm at the point in the game where "grandeur expectations" of my realm is for it to be at grandeur 10, however it is literally impossible to reach that point without running at a deficit. Am I doing something wrong or is there a balance problem with this dlc?

[madracc00n]

Hard to tell ur situation exactly,but it seems the bigger ur realms is harder and more expensive it is to get to max grandeur.

[Tanuvein]

I think you need to focus on economic buildings a little sooner now to afford everything at a decent pace. Look for farmlands in particular. It gives an incentive for optimizing your economy a little, to raid more and to give the buildings more of a necessity. If you start as a king it might be hard to fix your economy, but it's more important now. Ransoms from sieges are great as well as a few skill trees (a stewardship one to sell hooks, a diplomacy one sell titles, one in some skill tree to extort people). Economically speaking it seems as if the court is intended to be a money sink, probably why they limit it to king level since Dukedoms and counties can't afford them effectively.

[Beater]

build your economy. Started as Makuria in 867 and got to level 10 court in ~100 years making +30 gold with a big army.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by madrac00n:

Hard to tell ur situation exactly,but it seems the bigger ur realms is harder and more expensive it is to get to max grandeur.

Yeah, but there seems to be a weird curve to it, because affording ammenities was never that much of a trouble for me before reaching lvls 8-10, so the bigger you are the more of a burden(insteado of a boon) the royal court seems to be, which doesn't seem like an intended balance choice.

On the flipside, I imagine a roman-empire sized empire probably can afford it just fine. Its the in-between those stages that seems crippled for me. Feels like the grandeur expectation is overtuned.

[Myth Alric]

Well also keep in mind you can increase grandeur with items. The way I envision it, is that you amass a lot of high quality items when you are rich in the golden age of your kingdom, then when you die and your deadbeat, broke sons take over the family, they live off your fame through the items. So you crank down the amenities a lot lower to free up gold, while trying to maintain grandeur with the items. I have not gotten to level 10 and I had a small kingdom though(playing as Navarra where the expectation was like 3 and I had a 6).

I think it is balanced like that on purpose though, since very large empires are supposed to be harder to run and they do want them to occasionally break apart. It is to like simulate how large empires get more opulent and corrupt over time and can't maintain it and eventually go into decline and may even split up or collapse.

[Ás Fífldjarfi]

I am having the opposite problem. My expected grandeour is 2, and I am at 10, because I have plenty of money. I run deficit if I deploy my army, but having a +20 relation and a huge income of prestige and renown because of my court grandeour, I am usually only fighting offensive wars, so I always build up a bank of money before starting a war.

Problem as in, I am wondering if court grandeour is a bit imbalanced as I am able to afford top of the line of everything and still making 20 gold per month, and I am a tiny kingdom in Tibet.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Ás Fífldjarfi:

I am having the opposite problem. My expected grandeour is 2, and I am at 10, because I have plenty of money. I run deficit if I deploy my army, but having a +20 relation and a huge income of prestige and renown because of my court grandeour, I am usually only fighting offensive wars, so I always build up a bank of money before starting a war.

Problem as in, I am wondering if court grandeour is a bit imbalanced as I am able to afford top of the line of everything and still making 20 gold per month, and I am a tiny kingdom in Tibet.

I believe that to be the case, yeah. Since right now court expenses scale with size and are prone to outweight vassal taxation, this means that demesne is what makes you profitable. That means "tall" kingdoms are disproportionally benefitted, and can very easily afford 10 grandeur courts.

[Vladolf Putler]

in fact its the other way around, they are cheap, if you cant afford highest lvl, and you are some time in game, you are doing something wrong for sure. My wish is once they fix the things they broke with this dlc, they will rebalance the prices and make it more expensive

[Ás Fífldjarfi]

Originally posted by Venom Jesus:

I believe that to be the case, yeah. Since right now court expenses scale with size and are prone to outweight vassal taxation, this means that demesne is what makes you profitable. That means "tall" kingdoms are disproportionally benefitted, and can very easily afford 10 grandeur courts.

Yeah, I have 8 well developed provinces in my Demense, even though I still have partition, but the game makes it so cheap and easy to just disinherit my sons(and I can still keep few around for spare parts, I can always re-inherit them). I did have to make my heritage men only(to safe on disinheriting women) but the game is extremely easy. I am now, with a fully upgraded court, and with pretty much every minor title active that I can, still making about 30-40 gold after expenses. My kingdom is pretty big now, but it is made from big counties and I am compromised of about 10-12 duchies now.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Bashar al-Assad:

in fact its the other way around, they are cheap, if you cant afford highest lvl, and you are some time in game, you are doing something wrong for sure. My wish is once they fix the things they broke with this dlc, they will rebalance the prices and make it more expensive

This is absolutely not the case unless you play tall. Empires that are big enough literally make less money from vassal taxation than they expend in court amenities. Specially if its a low development region.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Ás Fífldjarfi:

Originally posted by Venom Jesus:

I believe that to be the case, yeah. Since right now court expenses scale with size and are prone to outweight vassal taxation, this means that demesne is what makes you profitable. That means "tall" kingdoms are disproportionally benefitted, and can very easily afford 10 grandeur courts.

Yeah, I have 8 well developed provinces in my Demense, even though I still have partition, but the game makes it so cheap and easy to just disinherit my sons(and I can still keep few around for spare parts, I can always re-inherit them). I did have to make my heritage men only(to safe on disinheriting women) but the game is extremely easy. I am now, with a fully upgraded court, and with pretty much every minor title active that I can, still making about 30-40 gold after expenses. My kingdom is pretty big now, but it is made from big counties and I am compromised of about 10-12 duchies now.

That's not particulary huge but yeah, 8 well-developed counties will carry you through. Thats just playing tall with a wide dressing though.

As you increase in size at empire level, you'll notice your expenses will only rise and you'll make less money overall save for the demesne itself.

[Kimlin]

I would argue that they are not expensive enough. The benefits are pretty strong.

[burtod]

The seafaring pirate line in the dynastic improvements get you more captives, bonus ransom gold and prestige, and gold for inflicting fatal casualties.

I haven't been able to watch it properly, but I think that the fatal casualty gold is really pumping me up in wars or raids.

[Venom Jesus]

Originally posted by Kimlin:

I would argue that they are not expensive enough. The benefits are pretty strong.

If you believe that, I'd say you just haven't played a big enough empire in a poor enough region. There are situations in-game where to meet grandeur expectation you literally will pay more in court amenities than you will receive back in vassal tax

[kingsims]

The best i found to get around this is give away Kingdom Titles in poor regions to family members and grant them independence, and stay allied to them. You technically do not rule it, although your dynasty does/cadet dynasty, so you can always reclaim it for them (I believe you still get prestige and renown. Keep the De Jure empire title for yourself and expand via Giving titles away and grant independance. This keep the cost down, also stack Grandeur items in your court. The bonus is you keep costs down, and have a highly developed main demesne, Honestly the scaling should be capped.

This this the pilgrimage BS all over again. 500 Gold for very long pilgrimage is ridiculous. I only go once now as the Wise man trait 2 additional ranks are not worth it. Holy War CB is cheap with the just cause causibell discount for 50% so i never need it anyway and it just cleans out all