Crusades.

[mar4uder]

Sooooo - for the first time, I declined to participate in the crusades. I had my hands full with far more urgent things at the time. The Pope then swatted me no less than FOUR times. Each time bringing my level of devotion down, until I was a Sinner. Then he excommunicated me.
Is this normal in the game? I mean - I'm quite happy to wear a penalty for refusing - but this seems to make it impossible. Which is most certainly not historically accurate.

[sbudy]

Why didn't you just contribute money? It's usually affordable and would spare you participation in the actual war.

[mar4uder]

Originally posted by sbudy:

Why didn't you just contribute money? It's usually affordable and would spare you participation in the actual war.

I did that in one of my games. Paid Don Popeone off. When D-day came, he was back: "Gimme troops - or else!" So the bastard followed extortion up with double-dipping.

Historically of course, it wasn't anything like that at all. I'd just like someone to tell me, if this is a flawed game-mechanic, or I'm just crusade-cursed.

[sbudy]

It never happened to me when I was some duke in France. I gave the Pope money and he was happy with me. Actually some of it was money I've lent from him... What was your piety level pre-crusade? Maybe it was already dangerously low.

[mar4uder]

Originally posted by sbudy:

It never happened to me when I was some duke in France. I gave the Pope money and he was happy with me. Actually some of it was money I've lent from him... What was your piety level pre-crusade? Maybe it was already dangerously low.

It was high enough, that's why he had to swat me three times, to bring me down to sinner, and then once more to excommunicate. I mean - once is fair enough....but FOUR times, seems like a load of manure.

[sbudy]

It's really odd. Calling four times to the same ruler in the same Crusade?
What was your main title?

[mar4uder]

Originally posted by sbudy:

It's really odd. Calling four times to the same ruler in the same Crusade?
What was your main title?

Emperor. of Franconia. Not Holy Roman.

The double-dipping in another game happened, when I was a King.

[sbudy]

I guess I've never played a Catholic emperor (well, for more than the two seconds required for the relevant achievement) so I can't say if your situation is normal or not.

[sbudy]

Oh wait. I was the Catholic Empress of Hispania, but I actually participated and won a crusade when I was just the queen of Portugal, so I still can't help you.

[mar4uder]

Originally posted by sbudy:

I guess I've never played a Catholic emperor (well, for more than the two seconds required for the relevant achievement) so I can't say if your situation is normal or not.

Yeah - I like to work my way up from Duke. Once I"m crowned Emperor, I usually lose interest. This time though, my situation was interesting enough for me to continue. Until Don Popeone ruined it for me.

[sbudy]

It's not that. I've played tons of hours as a non-Catholic emperor and still found an interest, even if just was the challenge of keeping multiple empires together or going for a difficult achievement. I just generally dislike playing a Catholic ruler since random events regularly generate sins and hooks on me for that strict religion.

[mar4uder]

Originally posted by sbudy:

It's not that. I've played tons of hours as a non-Catholic emperor and still found an interest, even if just was the challenge of keeping multiple empires together or going for a difficult achievement. I just generally dislike playing a Catholic ruler since random events regularly generate sins and hooks on me for that strict religion.

Yeah - catholic is very restrictive. I've had many attempts at reforming that strait-jacket of a religion. They keep squshing me like a bug. I prefer playing more liberal religions - but I can never make much progress against christianity/islam.

[sbudy]

I had better luck with that. That's actually my go-to game. You just have to start deep inside heathen territory and build up your power based on conquering heathen realms (e.g., 867 Scandinavia or Central Africa).
Start conquering Catholic/Muslim land only when you're strong enough to squash any crusade against you.

[Сааребас]

One does simply not refuse a request for participating in the crusades and expect to not be excommunicated.

[sbudy]

I think his problem was that he refused as an emperor. A minor duke could probably get away with it as his contribution isn't crucial.

[mar4uder]

Originally posted by МельницаPEEK:

One does simply not refuse a request for participating in the crusades and expect to not be excommunicated.

Not historically accurate. If it's a deliberate game-mechanic, I'm calling Foul.

The Pope coerced. He offered incentives. He did not have the power to force. The masses went, because they were morons. The nobles went hoping for loot. Many went in exchange for absolution from their sins. Excommunication was the most powerful tool the Pope had in his arsenal. It was used judiciously - lest it become blunted. And mostly for political reasons. Certainly not to browbeat powerful, independent rulers. That would have destroyed the whole synergy between the Roman-Catholic Church and the Lords of the Realms.