Claims

[Humphries2594]

What are my options to gaining claims on kingdoms i already hold a kingdom title?

p.s Tried the pope but it's -1000 due to me already holding a kingdom title

[Kvinden]

Why do you want a claim on a title you already own ???

[Elenjo [Ger]]

you cant get claims on titles you already have, if you have it you can go and declare wars for the terretory of said titles

[Humphries2594]

Originally posted by Kvinden:

Why do you want a claim on a title you already own ???

Sorry a bit of confusion here....

867 start as Otto of Angria.

I hold the kingdom of East Francia and i'm wanting the kingdoms of Lotharinga, Barvaria and Italy. I'm trying to form the holy roman empire as Otto.

[Elenjo [Ger]]

you can go down the intrigue skill tree and there should be a way to make a scheme against a person for their title (claim).
or go down the Steward Tree and buy the title claim.

otherwise i dont think you can do much other then go for parts of it until you have enough.

My tip for the HRE, start with the King of Francia (as the karolinger you have claims on your brothers) and build cheap mercenary units and go after your East Francia Brother and get it, with a bit here and there of land gathering you can do the HRE.
I done it in ~30 years after starting in 867.
Oh and btw, if you get the east francia title, you need to instantly do it as your primal title

[Scrotum Scratcher]

marriage

[Elenjo [Ger]]

Originally posted by Scrotum Scratcher:

marriage

not as easy at it sounds

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by James Humphries:

What are my options to gaining claims on kingdoms i already hold a kingdom title?

p.s Tried the pope but it's -1000 due to me already holding a kingdom title

Marry your ruler to a lady that has "pressed" claims to the title(s) you're after. You can either act on them or "wait" for her to die after you have some kids with her. Once your heir by her inherits her claims, you can act on that or wait until you succeed as the heir to press the claims, whatever you like.

Get rid of your realm bishop until you have 1 with exceptionally high learning. Use them to fabricate claims and they'll likely pop duchy claims for you. Repeat this process a few times and have the technology to go to war for multiple claims at once, and you'll have whatever kingdom title(s) you want.

Get the "sanctioned loopholes" perk in the middle tree of the learning lifestyle. While you might not always be able to purchase a kingdom title, you'll more than likely be able to purchase numerous duchy titles, and like I said above if you have the technology to go to war for multiple claims at once you'll be in a good spot to get what you're looking for.

[Kvinden]

Heraclius is right.
Marriage works well but it must be planned at the beginning of the game. If you already have a kingdom it is too late.

I've done it already, playing Ermentrude, the second daughter of Charles the bald. she has a claim on the empire itself and west Francia. In fact she has all the claims you need.
But Louis the german has a son ( also called Louis) who is single and has a claim on East francia and bavaria. Combine both and you have more tham you need. The claim on the empire can be used against Lotharingia and Italy, the others for the remaining.

But playing a catholic woman is complicated. Louis is probably easier to play than Ermentrude because he is a man and she is not playable immediately. I was quite surprised with the restrictions on Catholic women because I was used to play pagans. After some time she gets the county of Tonnerre and becomes playable but the best is to marry her immediately. She always get the title of Tonnerre and all the claims of her father, married or not so it is the same if you wait or not except Charles will probably marry her with a 70 years old commoner if you delay. ANd the game is made so in the minute a girl is married, she becomes prengant, even with an impotent 80 yo man. I doubt it will be fixed and made more realistic in the future.

Or you can play Charles the bald, he already has one of the kingdoms and claims on all the rest but it is an unpleasant character, a sinner, a murderer and a kinslayer.

If you succeed with the marriage you have everything you need, the casus belli and the alliances to attack Lothario and Louis of Italy. Because war is inevitable, Lothario will not give his title willingly. Louis of Italy is not really a problem. If he doesnøt die fighting the muslims in Spain he will not last very long against your alliances. Here again, don't delay too much to attack him while you still have the powerful alliances. Lotharingia can wait.
It is not as difficult to conquer the empire than to keep it

[Humphries2594]

Originally posted by Kvinden:

Heraclius is right.
Marriage works well but it must be planned at the beginning of the game. If you already have a kingdom it is too late.

I've done it already, playing Ermentrude, the second daughter of Charles the bald. she has a claim on the empire itself and west Francia. In fact she has all the claims you need.
But Louis the german has a son ( also called Louis) who is single and has a claim on East francia and bavaria. Combine both and you have more tham you need. The claim on the empire can be used against Lotharingia and Italy, the others for the remaining.

But playing a catholic woman is complicated. Louis is probably easier to play than Ermentrude because he is a man and she is not playable immediately. I was quite surprised with the restrictions on Catholic women because I was used to play pagans. After some time she gets the county of Tonnerre and becomes playable but the best is to marry her immediately. She always get the title of Tonnerre and all the claims of her father, married or not so it is the same if you wait or not except Charles will probably marry her with a 70 years old commoner if you delay. ANd the game is made so in the minute a girl is married, she becomes prengant, even with an impotent 80 yo man. I doubt it will be fixed and made more realistic in the future.

Or you can play Charles the bald, he already has one of the kingdoms and claims on all the rest but it is an unpleasant character, a sinner, a murderer and a kinslayer.

If you succeed with the marriage you have everything you need, the casus belli and the alliances to attack Lothario and Louis of Italy. Because war is inevitable, Lothario will not give his title willingly. Louis of Italy is not really a problem. If he doesnøt die fighting the muslims in Spain he will not last very long against your alliances. Here again, don't delay too much to attack him while you still have the powerful alliances. Lotharingia can wait.
It is not as difficult to conquer the empire than to keep it

Thanks for the advice.

I'm trying the historical route with Otto in Angria. I start off with murdering all the Karling son of Louis till it leaves the King of Italy as the successor so i don't have any annoyed Karlings in East Francia. I then use the claim throne event and defeat the Kingdom of East Francia.

Unfortunately i'm then stuck trying to get claims on the Kingdom of Bavaria, Lotharingia and Italy.

Marriage from the start of the game is difficult due to only being a Duke and i can't seem to get the marriages i need for the claims. Any ideas where i could improve my chances or is it just doing to be down to using my bishop for claims on Dutchies?

[Humphries2594]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Originally posted by James Humphries:

What are my options to gaining claims on kingdoms i already hold a kingdom title?

p.s Tried the pope but it's -1000 due to me already holding a kingdom title

Marry your ruler to a lady that has "pressed" claims to the title(s) you're after. You can either act on them or "wait" for her to die after you have some kids with her. Once your heir by her inherits her claims, you can act on that or wait until you succeed as the heir to press the claims, whatever you like.

Get rid of your realm bishop until you have 1 with exceptionally high learning. Use them to fabricate claims and they'll likely pop duchy claims for you. Repeat this process a few times and have the technology to go to war for multiple claims at once, and you'll have whatever kingdom title(s) you want.

Get the "sanctioned loopholes" perk in the middle tree of the learning lifestyle. While you might not always be able to purchase a kingdom title, you'll more than likely be able to purchase numerous duchy titles, and like I said above if you have the technology to go to war for multiple claims at once you'll be in a good spot to get what you're looking for.

What's this claim multiple Claims tech you speak of?

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by James Humphries:

Marriage from the start of the game is difficult due to only being a Duke and i can't seem to get the marriages i need for the claims. Any ideas where i could improve my chances or is it just doing to be down to using my bishop for claims on Dutchies?

A couple that come to mind:

Have a good diplomat and set them to foreign affairs.

Get the dynasty legacy that gives +30 marriage acceptance.

Use sway/send gifts. Fun fact: if you're swaying a character not in your realm, and you call a feast, there's a good chance the character will show up and will get the positive opinion modifiers from you having a feast.

Get a hook on them and force them to accept the marriage.

Originally posted by James Humphries:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Marry your ruler to a lady that has "pressed" claims to the title(s) you're after. You can either act on them or "wait" for her to die after you have some kids with her. Once your heir by her inherits her claims, you can act on that or wait until you succeed as the heir to press the claims, whatever you like.

Get rid of your realm bishop until you have 1 with exceptionally high learning. Use them to fabricate claims and they'll likely pop duchy claims for you. Repeat this process a few times and have the technology to go to war for multiple claims at once, and you'll have whatever kingdom title(s) you want.

Get the "sanctioned loopholes" perk in the middle tree of the learning lifestyle. While you might not always be able to purchase a kingdom title, you'll more than likely be able to purchase numerous duchy titles, and like I said above if you have the technology to go to war for multiple claims at once you'll be in a good spot to get what you're looking for.

What's this claim multiple Claims tech you speak of?

"Divine Right" in the "high medieval" tech.