Islamic World in CK3 should be the next focus

[Christ is King]

I really hate how bland it is the Islamic world was exploding at this time new cultures were being integrated under the banner of Islam. This is not portrayed in the game in any meaningful way nor is religion in general its just click adviser wait rinse and repeat for a few hundred years. I feel the Islamic faiths should also be able to conduct raids they historically conducted routine raids as far as the British isles for slaves and riches as early as the 790s and continued this for about 700 years. The Sunni-Shia divide is also non existent they just break Islam into many sects which I get but this should always have been equal too the Catholic vs Orthodox schism seems this was kept out on purpose to release as new content imo. The Islamic areas should be some of the most well fleshed out parts of CK3 instead of the bland decisionless wastelands they are now and I really hope that paradox is working on them next.

[Heraclius Caesar]

For me, personally, I could not care less about the Islamic world in this game. The game isn't called Kings of Islam 3 its Crusader Kings 3, so I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West before an Islamic focus dlc.

In my opinion the most immediate focus for this game should be adding more start dates, preferably after 1066, more events and more decisions, and more achievements, preferably done by a different artist, as the achievements artwork for this game look Terrible, especially those that were released with the Northern Lords dlc. They really need to go back to whoever did the art for the achievements for EU4 & CK2, they looked way better.

[Rhyagelle]

Pretty much everything is bland right now, it isn't just the Islamic world.

[Hao Zhao]

Everyone in every corner of the earth "historically conducted raids". Raids are limited to tribes because feudal and clan government are both swimming in money from their buildings. They don't need raiding. If anything, I find that by mid game I have more money than I know what to do with. There is absolutely no argument you could make in favour of this that respects game balance.

Islam is fine, IMO. There's more that could be done but what more do you need that couldn't be done as a mod? I'd rather the developers focus on radical new things like imperial government for Byzantium and/or China.

[Christ is King]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

For me, personally, I could not care less about the Islamic world in this game. The game isn't called Kings of Islam 3 its Crusader Kings 3, so I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West before an Islamic focus dlc.

In my opinion the most immediate focus for this game should be adding more start dates, preferably after 1066, more events and more decisions, and more achievements, preferably done by a different artist, as the achievements artwork for this game look Terrible, especially those that were released with the Northern Lords dlc. They really need to go back to whoever did the art for the achievements for EU4 & CK2, they looked way better.

I can understand that Id argue the Islamic side of the crusades is pretty fundamental to the game though for even as European rulers crusading sucks and leaves much to be desired you just whoop a feeble islamic world 10 times out of 10

Im with you all the way on the later start dates though couldnt agree more on that and I dont think one can have too many decisions lol of which Islam has like almost none.

I will always be of the mindset a stronger Islam in ck3 is a good thing it should be a challenge its just a mega curb stomp every play through though it gets stale af for me when in reality Islam was a major force to be reckoned with and they also brought plenty of innovation to the world they had one of the highest literacy rates of the time its a shame they dont get the historical love they deserve in this game imo

[Christ is King]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Everyone in every corner of the earth "historically conducted raids". Raids are limited to tribes because feudal and clan government are both swimming in money from their buildings. They don't need raiding. If anything, I find that by mid game I have more money than I know what to do with. There is absolutely no argument you could make in favour of this that respects game balance.

Islam is fine, IMO. There's more that could be done but what more do you need that couldn't be done as a mod? I'd rather the developers focus on radical new things like imperial government for Byzantium and/or China.

They have the least amount of stuff to do so far even the african cultures and religions have decisions specific to them mostly just the unite africa and another 1 i believe tied to religion

there should be a decision to end the sunni shia conflict that doesnt even exist in this game as of yet

As far as the raiding people dont understand how much they did it they brought millions upon millions of people back with them captured whole towns one raid on an Irish town netted them upwards of 5,000 captives and this went on for a good 700+ years again millions of people were captured this wasnt some small fry operation here "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli" The Barbary wars finally ended this

[brownacs]

"The Sunni-Shia divide is also non existent they just break Islam into many sects which I get but this should always have been equal too the Catholic vs Orthodox schism seems this was kept out on purpose to release as new content imo."

That's not really true. Sunni Islam didn't even exist when the game starts. Sunni Islam slowly coalesces together from various non-rafidi (Shia) sects of Islam starting in the 8th century and realistically finishing in the late 11th (al-Athariyyah, the school of traditionalist theology) during the Abbasid Caliphate. Shia Islam already existed having developed in the 7th and 8th centuries during the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates. No great schism. Shia split from what would become Sunni long before Sunni existed. And it'd be strange if it was represented in game because for the first half of the game there's no Sunni Islam to represent really, let alone a Sunni-Shia split. We're also used to the modern relationship between Sunni and Shia which is er... not great but actually the relations between the two are probably the worst they've ever been right now and they've gotten along relatively well for most of history (especially compared to say Protestants and Catholics). Baghdad, home of the Sunni Caliphate, is also where twelver Shi'ism developed (Al-Shaykh al-Mufid), and Salah ad-Din was invited to become vizier of Egypt by the Shia Caliph al-Adid. Sorry, I did my bachelor's on the spread of Islam so I can talk about it for hours and hours. If you're gonna gripe about Islam then, and this has always really annoyed me, Al-Ash'ari was born in 873 but when the game starts in 867, his teachings are already the most influential in the Muslim world, which is weird. That's one influential ovum. Other than the comparison to the Great Schism (sorry for the rant) I agree.

[Christ is King]

Originally posted by brownacs:

"The Sunni-Shia divide is also non existent they just break Islam into many sects which I get but this should always have been equal too the Catholic vs Orthodox schism seems this was kept out on purpose to release as new content imo."

That's not really true. Sunni Islam didn't even exist when the game starts. Sunni Islam slowly coalesces together from various non-rafidi (Shia) sects of Islam starting in the 8th century and realistically finishing in the late 11th (al-Athariyyah, the school of traditionalist theology) during the Abbasid Caliphate. Shia Islam already existed having developed in the 7th and 8th centuries during the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates. No great schism. Shia split from what would become Sunni long before Sunni existed. And it'd be strange if it was represented in game because for the first half of the game there's no Sunni Islam to represent really, let alone a Sunni-Shia split. We're also used to the modern relationship between Sunni and Shia which is er... not great but actually the relations between the two are probably the worst they've ever been right now and they've gotten along relatively well for most of history (especially compared to say Protestants and Catholics). Baghdad, home of the Sunni Caliphate, is also where twelver Shi'ism developed (Al-Shaykh al-Mufid), and Salah ad-Din was invited to become vizier of Egypt by the Shia Caliph al-Adid. Sorry, I did my bachelor's on the spread of Islam so I can talk about it for hours and hours. If you're gonna gripe about Islam then, and this has always really annoyed me, Al-Ash'ari was born in 873 but when the game starts in 867, his teachings are already the most influential in the Muslim world, which is weird. That's one influential ovum. Other than the comparison to the Great Schism (sorry for the rant) I agree.

Thank you for that actually learn something new everyday the way I understood it was that this split has existed since the death of Muhammad just not as pervasive so maybe a better thing would be to argue for a decision to found the Shia sect or something along those lines would be more accurate ? Religion in this game is done very poorly to say the least imo lol all in all I just want more content and stuff to do in that part of the world it would make for a better well rounded game with a chance for more variation every game ends with a reforming of the roman empire by some European ruler smh boring

[brownacs]

Originally posted by laszlok520:

Originally posted by brownacs:

"The Sunni-Shia divide is also non existent they just break Islam into many sects which I get but this should always have been equal too the Catholic vs Orthodox schism seems this was kept out on purpose to release as new content imo."

That's not really true. Sunni Islam didn't even exist when the game starts. Sunni Islam slowly coalesces together from various non-rafidi (Shia) sects of Islam starting in the 8th century and realistically finishing in the late 11th (al-Athariyyah, the school of traditionalist theology) during the Abbasid Caliphate. Shia Islam already existed having developed in the 7th and 8th centuries during the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates. No great schism. Shia split from what would become Sunni long before Sunni existed. And it'd be strange if it was represented in game because for the first half of the game there's no Sunni Islam to represent really, let alone a Sunni-Shia split. We're also used to the modern relationship between Sunni and Shia which is er... not great but actually the relations between the two are probably the worst they've ever been right now and they've gotten along relatively well for most of history (especially compared to say Protestants and Catholics). Baghdad, home of the Sunni Caliphate, is also where twelver Shi'ism developed (Al-Shaykh al-Mufid), and Salah ad-Din was invited to become vizier of Egypt by the Shia Caliph al-Adid. Sorry, I did my bachelor's on the spread of Islam so I can talk about it for hours and hours. If you're gonna gripe about Islam then, and this has always really annoyed me, Al-Ash'ari was born in 873 but when the game starts in 867, his teachings are already the most influential in the Muslim world, which is weird. That's one influential ovum. Other than the comparison to the Great Schism (sorry for the rant) I agree.

Thank you for that actually learn something new everyday the way I understood it was that this split has existed since the death of Muhammad just not as pervasive so maybe a better thing would be to argue for a decision to found the Shia sect or something along those lines would be more accurate ? Religion in this game is done very poorly to say the least imo lol all in all I just want more content and stuff to do in that part of the world it would make for a better well rounded game with a chance for more variation every game ends with a reforming of the roman empire by some European ruler smh boring

No, founding the Sunni Sect. Shia already existed... kinda (there are 100s of books on this subject... it's too complicated to discuss properly at all let alone over this kinda medium). To be fair, the Great Schism also isn't represented in game, unless I've somehow missed it in my 500 hours. The churches start out schismatic (if I'm remembering right), where-as, in reality, the great schism's usually dated to 1054 when Leo IX sent the papal legate to Constantinople to refuse Cerularius the title of Ecumenical Patriarch and demand that he recognised Rome's claims of primacy. So yeah... religion could use an update or two. I was disappointed playing as Matilda di Canossa that there weren't more interactions with the church (I'm English and a bit of a xenophile so I've barely spent any time in Europe in my 500 hours). I was hoping for investiture crises, shadow popes, all that. You can't really tell the story of the crusades without mentioning all that stuff at the start. Wouldn't be a Paradox game if it didn't have a load of features missing though. I wonder if we're gonna end up paying for it as dlc? I think they really look up to the Maxis/EA (player first) model which is sad for their fans. CK4's gonna be one county in Norway with nothing else and you're gonna have to pay $50 a pop for every other county and $100 for the systems which should've already been in it.

[Christ is King]

Originally posted by brownacs:

Originally posted by laszlok520:

Thank you for that actually learn something new everyday the way I understood it was that this split has existed since the death of Muhammad just not as pervasive so maybe a better thing would be to argue for a decision to found the Shia sect or something along those lines would be more accurate ? Religion in this game is done very poorly to say the least imo lol all in all I just want more content and stuff to do in that part of the world it would make for a better well rounded game with a chance for more variation every game ends with a reforming of the roman empire by some European ruler smh boring

No, founding the Sunni Sect. Shia already existed... kinda (there are 100s of books on this subject... it's too complicated to discuss properly at all let alone over this kinda medium). To be fair, the Great Schism also isn't represented in game, unless I've somehow missed it in my 500 hours. The churches start out schismatic (if I'm remembering right), where-as, in reality, the great schism's usually dated to 1054 when Leo IX sent the papal legate to Constantinople to refuse Cerularius the title of Ecumenical Patriarch and demand that he recognised Rome's claims of primacy. So yeah... religion could use an update or two. I was disappointed playing as Matilda di Canossa that there weren't more interactions with the church (I'm English and a bit of a xenophile so I've barely spent any time in Europe in my 500 hours). I was hoping for investiture crises, shadow popes, all that. You can't really tell the story of the crusades without mentioning all that stuff at the start. Wouldn't be a Paradox game if it didn't have a load of features missing though. I wonder if we're gonna end up paying for it as dlc? I think they really look up to the Maxis/EA (player first) model which is sad for their fans. CK4's gonna be one county in Norway with nothing else and you're gonna have to pay $50 a pop for every other county and $100 for the systems which should've already been in it.

Im always mixing up the names smh but I hear you man I dont like this model of releasing new "DLC" at all I do like that it keeps them working on the game and putting things out but how much of it is truly new and not just being sat on till am arbitrary release date for more money its very anti consumer imo and I hope it doesnt get worse I do look forward to seeing what they do next with CK3

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

For me, personally, I could not care less about the Islamic world in this game. The game isn't called Kings of Islam 3 its Crusader Kings 3, so I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West before an Islamic focus dlc.

In my opinion the most immediate focus for this game should be adding more start dates, preferably after 1066, more events and more decisions, and more achievements, preferably done by a different artist, as the achievements artwork for this game look Terrible, especially those that were released with the Northern Lords dlc. They really need to go back to whoever did the art for the achievements for EU4 & CK2, they looked way better.

nobody ever played anything after 1066 in CK2 tho

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

For me, personally, I could not care less about the Islamic world in this game. The game isn't called Kings of Islam 3 its Crusader Kings 3, so I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West before an Islamic focus dlc.

In my opinion the most immediate focus for this game should be adding more start dates, preferably after 1066, more events and more decisions, and more achievements, preferably done by a different artist, as the achievements artwork for this game look Terrible, especially those that were released with the Northern Lords dlc. They really need to go back to whoever did the art for the achievements for EU4 & CK2, they looked way better.

nobody ever played anything after 1066 in CK2 tho

? Ok. I sure did, and I really doubt that I'm the only 1 to have done so.

[BoboMaximus]

CK3 is just stripped Updated Graphics of CK2 some improvements. The Game still feels naked .

[BoboMaximus]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

For me, personally, I could not care less about the Islamic world in this game. The game isn't called Kings of Islam 3 its Crusader Kings 3, so I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West before an Islamic focus dlc.

In my opinion the most immediate focus for this game should be adding more start dates, preferably after 1066, more events and more decisions, and more achievements, preferably done by a different artist, as the achievements artwork for this game look Terrible, especially those that were released with the Northern Lords dlc. They really need to go back to whoever did the art for the achievements for EU4 & CK2, they looked way better.

With out Islam you don't have the Crusades? LOL Read some History Bro . The Crusades were a response To the advance of Islam not Just in the Holy Lands , but Iberian peninsula, Northern Africa and even Southern Italy. Its a crucial Mechanic for that period in History. Later became a economic engine for Europe.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by BoboMaximus:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

For me, personally, I could not care less about the Islamic world in this game. The game isn't called Kings of Islam 3 its Crusader Kings 3, so I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West before an Islamic focus dlc.

In my opinion the most immediate focus for this game should be adding more start dates, preferably after 1066, more events and more decisions, and more achievements, preferably done by a different artist, as the achievements artwork for this game look Terrible, especially those that were released with the Northern Lords dlc. They really need to go back to whoever did the art for the achievements for EU4 & CK2, they looked way better.

With out Islam you don't have the Crusades? LOL Read some History Bro . The Crusades were a response To the advance of Islam not Just in the Holy Lands , but Iberian peninsula, Northern Africa and even Southern Italy. Its a crucial Mechanic for that period in History. Later became a economic engine for Europe.

What are you talking about? Do you often go around and make up nonsense that people didn't say? Where did I say anything about the game being "without Islam"? You sound ridiculous.

LOL btw can you even read BRO? Where did I say get rid of Islam or no Islam BRO LOL? LOL I said I would rather have more decisions, events, and flavor for Western and European rulers before a Islamic focus dlc BRO LOL.

Guaranteed I know more about history than you and there is literally nothing you could ever hope to tell me about it BRO LOL. Guaranteed you need to read what people actually write before spewing out some nonsense BRO LOL.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

For me, personally, I could not care less about the Islamic world in this game. The game isn't called Kings of Islam 3 its Crusader Kings 3, so I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West before an Islamic focus dlc.

In my opinion the most immediate focus for this game should be adding more start dates, preferably after 1066, more events and more decisions, and more achievements, preferably done by a different artist, as the achievements artwork for this game look Terrible, especially those that were released with the Northern Lords dlc. They really need to go back to whoever did the art for the achievements for EU4 & CK2, they looked way better.

You realise that the targets of the crusades were Islamic peoples, yes? So why shouldn't they get fleshed out after Europe? I'm not saying they should get more stuff before the Europeans, but rather the role of religion should be more fleshed out for all at the same time. The crusade element would be boring if European Christian rulers had more decisions and power than their prime targets.

Tell me, where did I say anything about Islamic peoples not being the targets of most of the crusades? You do realize that I didn't say anything like that, Yes?

"So why shouldn't they get fleshed out after Europe?" Lol, again, where did I say that they shouldn't? If you read my exact words on the matter, I said "I would personally rather see more events, decisions, and overall flavor for the rulers of Europe and the West BEFORE an Islamic focus dlc." You literally quoted this in your reply, and then tried to pretend like I didn't say it?

I never said that Europeans should have some unfair advantage over Islam or whatever you're implying.

If you're going to respond to someone, read what was actually written, rather than just throwing stuff out there that the person you're replying to didn't even say.

My point and my opinion was that I disagree with OPs assertion that the next dlc should be focused on the Islamic world, when Europe and the West, the regions where the "Crusader Kings" actually came from, need a lot more love in the form of (again) more events, decisions, and overall flavor. I also said there should be more start dates after 1066 and more achievements.

I do agree that they should address and update all cultures/religions simultaneously but apparently that's overwhelming for them and they rather parcel each 1 out as separate dlc. It is what it is.

Also, I saw your cute little edit there. Lol, I got what you originally said in the quote anyway bud, and whether you meant to say should or shouldn't there doesn't even matter in the 1st place tbh, since, like I said, the regions where the "Crusader Kings" actually came from need a lot of attention, and the game needs more start dates and achievements, all before they even think about an Islamic focused dlc.