Rebellions are still completely busted

[No I think Not]

Theres not a single game Ive played where any empire lasts for more then 50 years, all it takes is for two or more vassals to rebel to comepletely shatter any attempt at a nation. As the player, the rebellion mechanic becomes cancer beyond reckoning, the moment a succession happens every single vassal will join a claiment faction, which late game can be easily fixed through bribes and is a comeplete joke but in the early game it makes building anything remotely bigger then a duchy absolutly abhorent, the AI as per usual is rigged against the player and will pursue a rebellion against you even when the country is being invade on two fronts, if it was a AI faction a white peace would be signed immediatly making it even more of a BS mechanic.

There needs to be some kind of change, Ive said it before, but there is no functional reason why you should ever play as a independant rather then a vassal, the game is way too punishing towards independent rulers. Oh and one more thing, peasant revolts are infinite, for the love of god at least put a 5 year cooldown on when they can form.

[MarVerine]

I up you one if the game wants it can even spit out counties or even whole dutchies out of your land if you are too successfull and fast in your conquest.

[Forblaze]

Claimant factions are definitely out of control. I have vassals joining them even when I have +50 relationship with them and they voted for me in the succession election to begin with.

It's also very frustrating to push a distant relative's claim to a neighboring kingdom, be unable to create an alliance with them because of familial distance, and for them to immediately lose their title to some nobody.

[ste]

I dont see them as a problem.

They only happen because they are stronger than you, its no good expanding your lands as far as the eye can see trying to break a personal best map painting session if you are too weak to control them all.

It doesnt matter how much they like you if they think they have a chance of winning its war, exactly how you got those lands in the first place, we would fight our 100 opinion twin brother to expand our realms, so we cant complain when the AI does the exact same

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by ste:

I dont see them as a problem.

They only happen because they are stronger than you, its no good expanding your lands as far as the eye can see trying to break a personal best map painting session if you are too weak to control them all.

It doesnt matter how much they like you if they think they have a chance of winning its war, exactly how you got those lands in the first place, we would fight our 100 opinion twin brother to expand our realms, so we cant complain when the AI does the exact same

Its not a matter of them wanting to rebel, its the manner in which rebellions function, due to how little you get from vassals (especially in the early game) All it takes is two big vassals to rebel to destroy your country. Its not uncommon to see vassals have more personal levies then thier own lieges. Rebellions function almost like a defensive pact war with everyone in it declaring war on thier liege with thier personal levies. This makes rebellions 100 times more dangerous. The game actively encourages you to expand in order for you to get enough land for your children so you dont end up with a horridly decentralized realm due to partition. This is exactly what happened to me in a game which prompted this, the chracter I was playing screwed like a rabbit and had 9 children. My daughter hier died and her son became the hier, when my player character died every single vassal joined a claiment faction even my hiers own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ father (a duke in the kingdom). The system underpinning rebellions is horridly balanced.

[Tarshaid]

Originally posted by No I think Not:

Originally posted by ste:

I dont see them as a problem.

They only happen because they are stronger than you, its no good expanding your lands as far as the eye can see trying to break a personal best map painting session if you are too weak to control them all.

It doesnt matter how much they like you if they think they have a chance of winning its war, exactly how you got those lands in the first place, we would fight our 100 opinion twin brother to expand our realms, so we cant complain when the AI does the exact same

Its not a matter of them wanting to rebel, its the manner in which rebellions function, due to how little you get from vassals (especially in the early game) All it takes is two big vassals to rebel to destroy your country. Its not uncommon to see vassals have more personal levies then thier own lieges. Rebellions function almost like a defensive pact war with everyone in it declaring war on thier liege with thier personal levies. This makes rebellions 100 times more dangerous. The game actively encourages you to expand in order for you to get enough land for your children so you dont end up with a horridly decentralized realm due to partition. This is exactly what happened to me in a game which prompted this, the chracter I was playing screwed like a rabbit and had 9 children. My daughter hier died and her son became the hier, when my player character died every single vassal joined a claiment faction even my hiers own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ father (a duke in the kingdom). The system underpinning rebellions is horridly balanced.

So if I'm reading this right, you horribly underprepared your succession while spawning heirs like a madman, and the vassals that did not split their own domain among 9 children kept their own power while yours dwindled, and it's the fault of the game for having too many rebellions? I seriously read all that you're listing as the system working perfectly as intended, strong dukes who manage to consolidate power should present a threat to kings who don't keep their succession in check and spawn myriads of claimants to their own thrones, that their own vassals can use as puppets.

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by Tarshaid:

Originally posted by No I think Not:

So if I'm reading this right, you horribly underprepared your succession while spawning heirs like a madman, and the vassals that did not split their own domain among 9 children kept their own power while yours dwindled, and it's the fault of the game for having too many rebellions? I seriously read all that you're listing as the system working perfectly as intended, strong dukes who manage to consolidate power should present a threat to kings who don't keep their succession in check and spawn myriads of claimants to their own thrones, that their own vassals can use as puppets

Oh yes because I can just stop my character from having children- oh wait that magic button is locked behind a learning skill tree, also I was activily trying to fix the succession, I had 6 of my children landed as dukes, and was actively about to get the seventh when my chractered died due to a bad dice roll at 50. When he died, litterally everyone joined a claiment faction for my origonal chracters sister. Because that makes sense.

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by ste:

I dont see them as a problem.

They only happen because they are stronger than you, its no good expanding your lands as far as the eye can see trying to break a personal best map painting session if you are too weak to control them all.

This is not my experience. When a succession triggers, I've always had vassals flock to support claimants regardless of their strength. Claimants don't even need to create the faction themselves. Vassals with positive opinion of you will create factions for claimants that also have positive opinion of you and other vassals with positive opinion will join it to overthrow you.

[ste]

Giving out duke titles to your kids is basically giving an army to powerful enemies with claims to your titles.

Dont allow your vassals to get too big that they become a problem. Dont grow too quick that your vassals become more powerful than you.

Keep them in check, keep them at count level as long as possible, single domains, dont give out duchies unless you have too,

Make sure you are personally as strong as possible, grow tall. Max out holdings, do everything you can to beable to have as many holdings as possible, focus on upgrading them all.

It should get to the point you are personally strong enough they are too weak to rebel.

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by ste:

Giving out duke titles to your kids is basically giving an army to powerful enemies with claims to your titles.

Dont allow your vassals to get too big that they become a problem. Dont grow too quick that your vassals become more powerful than you.

Keep them in check, keep them at count level as long as possible, single domains, dont give out duchies unless you have too,

Make sure you are personally as strong as possible, grow tall. Max out holdings, do everything you can to beable to have as many holdings as possible, focus on upgrading them all.

It should get to the point you are personally strong enough they are too weak to rebel.

You dont have a choice in the matter, unless you stay a duke for the first 200 years of the game, partition will make powerful vassals for you. Otherwise, the game we are talking about is called crusader kings, I should want to be a king. I shouldnt HAVE too play duke city simulator for half the game just to be able to play the game in any kind of fair capacity. Growing tall should not be the only way to play, thats just poor game design.

[No I think Not]

And yes I have actually tried exactly what your saying to me right now, and yes it does make the game stupidly easier. But I shouldnt need to just play along one playstyle to get anywhere. Again, its poor game design.

[Tarshaid]

Originally posted by No I think Not:

Oh yes because I can just stop my character from having children- oh wait that magic button is locked behind a learning skill tree, also I was activily trying to fix the succession, I had 6 of my children landed as dukes, and was actively about to get the seventh when my chractered died due to a bad dice roll at 50. When he died, litterally everyone joined a claiment faction for my origonal chracters sister. Because that makes sense.

Want some ways to avoid having too many heirs ?
Pass any gender succession law not to deal with half your children.
Make knights out of your children and send them to die in battle.
Disinherit your children.
Divorce your wife.
Murder your wife.
All of which do not require any specific tree, nor to expand like crazy. By the way the learning skill tree would have increased your lifespan and given you extra time to deal with your succession. If you need time to plan, take it, don't bet on living a long and healthy life just because.

And yes, your dukes being stronger than you and thus plotting to put a convenient puppet on the throne makes total sense. Don't get dukes that you can't handle. Kill them off, terrify them, seduce them, send them all in jail if you must, but don't think for one second that a strong duke will work in your favor.

[ste]

If you are a king, you should have, 1 or 2 duchies, 4 or 5 or more holdings, trying to hold all those counties, working on upgrading them, this should be number one priority, with balancing buying men at arms. All you should have is 30 or so counts.
Give out titles only if you have no choice, to lowborn same religion same culture, marry your kids off to distant realms with some chance of inheriting, keep an eye out on how many kids you are having, marry 40 year olds if you cant stop having kids.

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by Tarshaid:

Originally posted by No I think Not:

Want some ways to avoid having too many heirs ?
Pass any gender succession law not to deal with half your children.
Make knights out of your children and send them to die in battle.
Disinherit your children.
Divorce your wife.
Murder your wife.
All of which do not require any specific tree, nor to expand like crazy. By the way the learning skill tree would have increased your lifespan and given you extra time to deal with your succession. If you need time to plan, take it, don't bet on living a long and healthy life just because.

And yes, your dukes being stronger than you and thus plotting to put a convenient puppet on the throne makes total sense. Don't get dukes that you can't handle. Kill them off, terrify them, seduce them, send them all in jail if you must, but don't think for one second that a strong duke will work in your favor.

1. That only works if you dont get all sons or all of one gender type.

2. Thats luck bassed and you know it.

3. Renown is hard enough to get as is and I should burn it all on fixing a broken system? Its night impossible to get more then one tree done in a entire game.

4. I love being forced to do something because the game wont let me succeed otherwise, with no other options.

5. see 4 above.

Dukes get stronger then the king because of how unbalanced the game is towards independant rulers. Again, all it takes is two big vassals to break a empire apart. Its ridiculous. If your a vassal you dont have to deal with half of the games issues.

[ste]

If you marry your kids out of the realm instead of in realm it will grow much faster.

[No I think Not]

Originally posted by ste:

If you are a king, you should have, 1 or 2 duchies, 4 or 5 or more holdings, trying to hold all those counties, working on upgrading them, this should be number one priority, with balancing buying men at arms. All you should have is 30 or so counts.
Give out titles only if you have no choice, to lowborn same religion same culture, marry your kids off to distant realms with some chance of inheriting, keep an eye out on how many kids you are having, marry 40 year olds if you cant stop having kids.

I actually did exactly this, down to a letter, but it didnt matter, all it takes are two additional unlanded children to comepletely screw your country up. I almost managed to fix the succession but I died to a bad dice roll. I cant be faulted with that.