Questions about reforming faiths

[Dirge]

Hi everyone, I'm about to reform a pagan faith(Asatruism) for the first time and I just had a few questions before I commit.
Can the faith be reformed more than once? Like, can my heirs change it again in the future?
What are some of your guys' favourite tenets? Which do you think are best?
Does creating a temporal head of faith essentially make you a "god king"? And if so, is it as fun as it sounds?
Are there any ways to change virtues and sins besides using tenets?

Thank you for any insights you all can provide!

[ste]

Theres more than not thats probably a waste

Cannibalism, pointless,
Natural primitivisim, pointless

[brownacs]

Oprindeligt skrevet af ste:

Theres more than not thats probably a waste

Cannibalism, pointless,
Natural primitivisim, pointless

That was my thinking when I asked the question. Pretty much: "Hmm... we're only really debating maybe 10 tenets here, and that's being generous. There are... 53 (just counted). Maybe the more interesting question is actually what would be the absolute worst combination, instead of the best."

[Dirge]

I just read on the wiki that the Warmonger tenet is what enables non-craven champions to rip some genius heir's head off and gain the Berserker trait.
Can anyone clarify if you can create Berserkers without the Warmonger tenet? Because if you need Warmonger to create them, that's a game changer.

[brownacs]

Oprindeligt skrevet af dankapotamus:

I just read on the wiki that the Warmonger tenet is what enables non-craven champions to rip some genius heir's head off and gain the Berserker trait.
Can anyone clarify if you can create Berserkers without the Warmonger tenet? Because if you need Warmonger to create them, that's a game changer.

BRUH! Let me tell you about the time my 2nd generation genius son (with a father with no good inheritable traits and a quick mother so just one hell of a lucky pick up) had his head ripped off by a berserker before having any children. That was the first time I encountered that particular mechanic and I still have nightmares about it.

[Slimane]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mati_Lublin:

Actually, being head of faith with communion tenet doesn't give cash anymore. Being head of faith isn't really that good:
- you need lay clergy doctrine, which makes temples available to hold (which in turn eats your domain limit, so you'll have to grant these temples to some minor vassals)
- communion doesn't work (already explained)
- directing great holy wars requires warmonger tenet, which by itself isn't that great (you have to raid/wage war every couple of months to placate your faith, meanwhile the same warring annoys heathens); try unreformed Asartru if you want to experience it
Having spiritual head of faith is way better, because "pope" at least can grant claims and cash (and excommunicate people with communion tenet - great to neutralize political opponents).
Regarding decent tenets:
- astrology is good (you may not care about naval speed, but every ten years through decision you can get random modifier boosting random lifestyle experience at a small cost)
- communal identity is good for cultural monoblocs (say, united Scandinavia with Norse culture) and there's also opinion bonus
- as mentioned before, esotericism
- gnosticism - situational, but if Europe implodes into heresies there's chance that some realms turn Mandean, Cathar or other with Gnostic tenet, so you'd get access to fresh blood when every potential spouse in your empire is somehow related to you (and then you can avoid inbreeding)
- legalism - situational, depends how you teach your heir(s) and his own heir to avoid sins
- pursuit of power - -50% title creation cost and tyranny gain plus conquest casus belli (normally restricted to tribal and clan governments) plus Invasion casus belli (kingdom size)? Yes, please. Way better than warmonger with Great Holy War.
- religious law - situational, as you'll never know who may be a sinner (and requires both having very high learning and having less sins than the target), so it's usually flat -10% cost reduction for laws
- bhakti/patron gods - it's ok, small stat modifier every ten years (Norse with recent DLC)
- pacifism - it's actually good (no holy wars, so no religious expansion, but also noone would drop fervor by launching these; domain limit is small, but always something; opinion bonus is nice; works with pursuit of power (so you can invade once per lifetime))
- sacred childbirth is good if you plan to create feminist faith with female rulers and not to wory about dying in childbirth (Somali and Baltic faiths)
- gruesome festivals and human sacrifice: both are nearly the same, both grant piety per execution, one offers raid for captives CB, other allows to perform bloody offering every 9 years

I just reformed Asatru with Communion and I still get money from it. Same for a game I played a few weeks ago and created a new Christian female dominated faith called "Feminism" so I still pretty much take communion everytime. Also makes honest a virtue which is very nice.

I also actually like to remove warmonger when I reform Asatru. Otherwise, once you reach maximum crown authority your vassals will be stuck with a massive "at peace" modifier and will get constant rebellions.

As for the others, I like ones that make virtues out of traits I use often or that you often get during childhood events (like the one that gives you choice between honest, deceitful or humble.) Having honest as a virtue is really nice for that.

[Dirge]

Oprindeligt skrevet af brownacs:

Oprindeligt skrevet af dankapotamus:

I just read on the wiki that the Warmonger tenet is what enables non-craven champions to rip some genius heir's head off and gain the Berserker trait.
Can anyone clarify if you can create Berserkers without the Warmonger tenet? Because if you need Warmonger to create them, that's a game changer.

BRUH! Let me tell you about the time my 2nd generation genius son (with a father with no good inheritable traits and a quick mother so just one hell of a lucky pick up) had his head ripped off by a berserker before having any children. That was the first time I encountered that particular mechanic and I still have nightmares about it.

Haha I know, I was referencing that just for you, saw you post it in a different thread :P
You don't actually need to rip the head off of a genius heir, you just got really unlucky. Any old head will do.
But yeah, https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Tenet#Warmonger shows that the Warmonger tenet is part of the trigger for a Berserker.

[brownacs]

Oprindeligt skrevet af dankapotamus:

Haha I know, I was referencing that just for you, saw you post it in a different thread :P
You don't actually need to rip the head off of a genius heir, you just got really unlucky. Any old head will do.
But yeah, https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Tenet#Warmonger shows that the Warmonger tenet is part of the trigger for a Berserker.

I missed that, might have something to do with my stress reduction methods (in game terms I'm a Hashishiyah). I will never ever get over that ♥♥♥♥. My grave will read <name> "Once had a genius son's head ripped off in CK3". And yeah it is. It's a fun little 'event' (unless it happens to you) and the trait's good but I'm not sure it's worth a tenet.

[Dirge]

So another hidden tenet effect the game doesn't mention until it's too late: Syncretisms make it harder to convert the faith you've synced with, giving your conversion attempt a -1.50 point modifier.
That's a bit of a downside IMO, it should be added to the description of the tenet.

Can't I play nice with the heathens while still enlightening them?

[Mati_Lublin]

One might think it would be easier to convert due to being similar.

In general, I feel pagans being seriously handicapped in terms of tenets in comparison to Abrahamics.

[garthurbrown]

"Christian syncretism's so you can usurp titles held by Christians which will save you a LOT of time"

Sounds backwards. How does syncretism make it easier to do this?

[Mati_Lublin]

Syncretism makes that religion hostile instead evil and allows intermarriage. Matrimarry your daughter to 3rd son of the French king and kill his older brothers. Or marry your heir to daughter of said king and later press claims of your grandson.

[♠.brT]

Just word of warning, if you are the religious head, you can't reform it, nor create a new faith, i just had that issue in one my games, i had reformed the Norse religion, and i was unhappy with some of the choices i made in there, so decided to try and reform it again (or create a new faith) later with another character, but unfortunately because i had made my character head of the faith, i couldn't create a new one.

[brownacs]

Oprindeligt skrevet af garthurbrown:

"Christian syncretism's so you can usurp titles held by Christians which will save you a LOT of time"

Sounds backwards. How does syncretism make it easier to do this?

Like Mati said, it makes your religion hostile not evil which lets you usurp titles and marry into Christian families etc..

[brownacs]

Oprindeligt skrevet af dankapotamus:

So another hidden tenet effect the game doesn't mention until it's too late: Syncretisms make it harder to convert the faith you've synced with, giving your conversion attempt a -1.50 point modifier.
That's a bit of a downside IMO, it should be added to the description of the tenet.

Can't I play nice with the heathens while still enlightening them?

I did not realise that. Thanks for the info. Still think it's probably worth it on balance. It's a real time saver.

[brownacs]

Oprindeligt skrevet af ♠.brT:

Just word of warning, if you are the religious head, you can't reform it, nor create a new faith, i just had that issue in one my games, i had reformed the Norse religion, and i was unhappy with some of the choices i made in there, so decided to try and reform it again (or create a new faith) later with another character, but unfortunately because i had made my character head of the faith, i couldn't create a new one.

Also did not realise that. Never actually tried. The more you know.